Author Topic: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again  (Read 11520 times)

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Offline 20Eyes

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The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
« on: November 23, 2010, 12:18:30 PM »
So, just got the latest LibDem Focus flyer through the door and they're still banging on about freeing up urgently needed street parking in Old Town by removing what I suspect would be several miles of completely unnecessary single and double yellow lines.

Seriously, I've been hearing about this plan for years now. It's one of the most sensible ideas I've heard in decades and is easily implemented; I'd be happy to buy a can of black paint and do it myself in my own street - zero cost to the council.

Why hasn't it happened yet and why isn't it happening NOW? It can't solely be down to the council worrying about losing  parking ticket revenue, surely?

In fact, can anyone with legal knowledge tell me what happens if a member of the public paints over yellow lines and then somebody else parks on the area that's been painted over? Surely the person who parks there can't be held accountable for parking somewhere they thought was legal?

If so, what's to stop everyone painting over the lines outside their house? They can't put us all in prison. That would be even less likely to happen in a town overseen by Judge Douglas 'Prisons? Hmm, nope. Jails, you say? Not sure what you mean. I'm not aware that either exist... and even if they do I won't be sending convicts there' Field.


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Offline Ringer

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Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2010, 01:41:05 PM »
I read the flyer this morning over coffee and found it was very interesting as it did not attack the Tory council, but attacked Labour, which was really puzzling, as the tories run the council.
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Offline Spectre

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Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2010, 01:55:58 PM »
I read the flyer this morning over coffee and found it was very interesting as it did not attack the Tory council, but attacked Labour, which was really puzzling, as the tories run the council.

Not surprising then is it. Probably written at Lib/Con Party HQ up there at Lunnon. ;)

Offline Chris Watts

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Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2010, 01:56:29 PM »
So, just got the latest LibDem Focus flyer through the door and they're still banging on about freeing up urgently needed street parking in Old Town by removing what I suspect would be several miles of completely unnecessary single and double yellow lines.

Seriously, I've been hearing about this plan for years now. It's one of the most sensible ideas I've heard in decades and is easily implemented; I'd be happy to buy a can of black paint and do it myself in my own street - zero cost to the council.

Why hasn't it happened yet and why isn't it happening NOW? It can't solely be down to the council worrying about losing  parking ticket revenue, surely?

In fact, can anyone with legal knowledge tell me what happens if a member of the public paints over yellow lines and then somebody else parks on the area that's been painted over? Surely the person who parks there can't be held accountable for parking somewhere they thought was legal?

If so, what's to stop everyone painting over the lines outside their house? They can't put us all in prison. That would be even less likely to happen in a town overseen by Judge Douglas 'Prisons? Hmm, nope. Jails, you say? Not sure what you mean. I'm not aware that either exist... and even if they do I won't be sending convicts there' Field.


There is a point when you have to stop talking about it in your leaflets and actually show your face in the council chamber and get your voice heard. Something that I have not seen from the Lib Dems. Fair enough, Stan Pajak had two motions at the last council meeting to do with the council supporting us moving to central European time and twinning with a town in Poland. Half the Lib Dem councillors could not be bothered to show up and support him. Going to council meetings is a good stating point in what representing your ward is all about.

I agree entirely with the Libdems who in the flyer do not agree with everything the coalition government do as per the leaflet. I think I read somewhere on TS years ago that Cllr Stan Pajack was on the County Council when the parking thing went in and it was the County transport policy that allowed it? If that is the case he did not comment in the leaflet about that anywhere?

I also notice that they condemn the Tories for not seconding their proposal over the gate on the Regent Circus Development. I also noted that it must have slipped their mind that 25% of the Libdems on the council and 100% of Libdems and 100% of the Tories on the planning committee voted for the Regents Circus development (including not having the so called gate). Whilst the only one who voted against the  development was a Labour councillor.


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Offline Geoff Reid

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Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2010, 03:11:30 PM »
 
Anyone got a copy of the leaflet they'd care to send to me?

Blaming Labour for the Regents Place planning approval sounds like Swindons LibDems are already fighting next Mays election campaign because Labours candidate for Eastcott is panicking them into making dubious election statements.

This sounds like one of Councillor Harrisons non-election-election-leaflets to me.  ;D

Offline Spectre

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Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
« Reply #5 on: November 23, 2010, 03:32:01 PM »
Chris has got one !

Offline DaveWood

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Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
« Reply #6 on: November 23, 2010, 04:58:46 PM »
So, just got the latest LibDem Focus flyer through the door and they're still banging on about freeing up urgently needed street parking in Old Town by removing what I suspect would be several miles of completely unnecessary single and double yellow lines.

Seriously, I've been hearing about this plan for years now. It's one of the most sensible ideas I've heard in decades and is easily implemented; I'd be happy to buy a can of black paint and do it myself in my own street - zero cost to the council.

Why hasn't it happened yet and why isn't it happening NOW? It can't solely be down to the council worrying about losing  parking ticket revenue, surely?

In fact, can anyone with legal knowledge tell me what happens if a member of the public paints over yellow lines and then somebody else parks on the area that's been painted over? Surely the person who parks there can't be held accountable for parking somewhere they thought was legal?

If so, what's to stop everyone painting over the lines outside their house? They can't put us all in prison. That would be even less likely to happen in a town overseen by Judge Douglas 'Prisons? Hmm, nope. Jails, you say? Not sure what you mean. I'm not aware that either exist... and even if they do I won't be sending convicts there' Field.

It feels like it should be a straight forward thing, but somehow it manages to be very complicated with traffic orders to be revoked, (needless to say) consultants to be employed, consultation to do. 

There was a stripping back of yellow lines about 18 months ago which started as a big exercise and ended up just being a dozen or so spaces.

What this really relies on is the Council seeing the need an wanting to do it.  Previously they haven't, but under CPCP, oddly, it's become a big thing and I'm more optimistic about taking up yellow lines than I have been in ages.

Offline DaveWood

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Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
« Reply #7 on: November 23, 2010, 05:04:40 PM »
I read the flyer this morning over coffee and found it was very interesting as it did not attack the Tory council, but attacked Labour, which was really puzzling, as the tories run the council.

That's the trouble with politics.  There's an assumption that whoever is in charge - whoever you want 'out' - you should just hammer them relentlessly, and ignore the failings of others.

As it happened in the last month the Council has done a couple of positive things and I think Labour have been sending out the wrong messages.

When someone does something wrong I'll tell it like it is, not just attack the same old people because it's what's 'expected'.

Offline 20Eyes

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Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2010, 05:06:53 PM »
Again, what happens if people paint over yellow lines in their road?

What's the point of the council sending someone out to repaint them, they may as well just 'bring forward' the decision to allow people to park freely.

Would save a LOT of money in these dark days of austerity.
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Offline DaveWood

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Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2010, 05:13:13 PM »
Again, what happens if people paint over yellow lines in their road?

What's the point of the council sending someone out to repaint them, they may as well just 'bring forward' the decision to allow people to park freely.

Would save a LOT of money in these dark days of austerity.

I'm sure it's illegal.  Would you like me to check the penalty?

I think the most practical consequence would be safety.  Some YLs are there for a reason, some are over-zealous.  If they were randomly removed fire engines would not be able to access the streets.

Offline Steve Wakefield

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Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
« Reply #10 on: November 23, 2010, 05:15:21 PM »
I read the flyer this morning over coffee and found it was very interesting as it did not attack the Tory council, but attacked Labour, which was really puzzling, as the tories run the council.

That's the trouble with politics.  There's an assumption that whoever is in charge - whoever you want 'out' - you should just hammer them relentlessly, and ignore the failings of others.

As it happened in the last month the Council has done a couple of positive things and I think Labour have been sending out the wrong messages.

When someone does something wrong I'll tell it like it is, not just attack the same old people because it's what's 'expected'.

If Labour have been sending out the wrong message a couple of recorded votes taken lately will show that LibDem councillors voted with Labour on budget proposals and LibDems did not support Conservative recast budget.
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Offline DaveWood

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Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
« Reply #11 on: November 23, 2010, 05:18:57 PM »
I agree entirely with the Libdems who in the flyer do not agree with everything the coalition government do as per the leaflet. I think I read somewhere on TS years ago that Cllr Stan Pajack was on the County Council when the parking thing went in and it was the County transport policy that allowed it? If that is the case he did not comment in the leaflet about that anywhere?

If we were against RP that would be something to say, but we were pro RP then and we still are now.

I also notice that they condemn the Tories for not seconding their proposal over the gate on the Regent Circus Development. I also noted that it must have slipped their mind that 25% of the Libdems on the council and 100% of Libdems and 100% of the Tories on the planning committee voted for the Regents Circus development (including not having the so called gate). Whilst the only one who voted against the  development was a Labour councillor.

As I stood up and said in the chamber, at the time, our residents were pro-Gate.  But they were also pro-Development even in the absence of a gate.

I think Martin would have been doing a dis-service to residents if he had not voted in favour - with the caveat about monitoring site access in the future - and the majority of residents agreed.

What I am surprised about is that only one Labour cllr voted against, when prior to the meeting other Labour cllrs made it clear how opposed they are to the current regeneration.

Far from being over-looked, Labours attitude to regeneration will be spoken about in some length going forwards.

Offline DaveWood

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Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
« Reply #12 on: November 23, 2010, 05:19:55 PM »
If Labour have been sending out the wrong message a couple of recorded votes taken lately will show that LibDem councillors voted with Labour on budget proposals and LibDems did not support Conservative recast budget.

Yes, those votes were not the ones I referred to.

Offline 20Eyes

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Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
« Reply #13 on: November 23, 2010, 05:21:38 PM »
I'm sure it's illegal.  Would you like me to check the penalty?

That would be of interest. Quite how anyone could prove who'd done it would be of even more interest.

I think the most practical consequence would be safety.  Some YLs are there for a reason, some are over-zealous.  If they were randomly removed fire engines would not be able to access the streets.

Yes, that's often the excuse that's trotted out. It makes very little sense when you look at how most yellow lines are used.
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Offline DaveWood

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Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
« Reply #14 on: November 23, 2010, 05:23:34 PM »

Anyone got a copy of the leaflet they'd care to send to me?

Blaming Labour for the Regents Place planning approval sounds like Swindons LibDems are already fighting next Mays election campaign because Labours candidate for Eastcott is panicking them into making dubious election statements.

This sounds like one of Councillor Harrisons non-election-election-leaflets to me.  ;D

Hand on heart I can say Labour's choice of candidate doesn't impact our leaflets.

Btw, I think you misunderstood Chris' comments above.

Offline Chris Watts

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Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
« Reply #15 on: November 23, 2010, 06:06:54 PM »

As I stood up and said in the chamber, at the time, our residents were pro-Gate.  But they were also pro-Development even in the absence of a gate.

I think Martin would have been doing a dis-service to residents if he had not voted in favour - with the caveat about monitoring site access in the future - and the majority of residents agreed.

What I am surprised about is that only one Labour cllr voted against, when prior to the meeting other Labour cllrs made it clear how opposed they are to the current regeneration.

That is one more than a Lib Dem Councillor. He did not accept the Tory argument, backed by the Lib Dems of, "accept this or we will lump you with a derelict site for a generation". You were too eager to swallow the Tory fantasy.

Hand on heart I can say Labour's choice of candidate doesn't impact our leaflets.

Hand on heart I would like thank you for your honesty. It's good to hear that your party does not let such things as another party's choice of candidate impact on your leaflets.   O0

Not like that party's sorry candidate that has a leaflet on another TS thread that mentioned a Tory from old town?



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Offline DaveWood

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Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2010, 06:46:00 PM »
That is one more than a Lib Dem Councillor. He did not accept the Tory argument, backed by the Lib Dems of, "accept this or we will lump you with a derelict site for a generation". You were too eager to swallow the Tory fantasy.

That is wrong, I'm afraid.

Hand on heart I would like thank you for your honesty. It's good to hear that your party does not let such things as another party's choice of candidate impact on your leaflets.   O0
Not like that party's sorry candidate that has a leaflet on another TS thread that mentioned a Tory from old town?

There is a difference.  I'll leave it up to your imagination ;)

Offline Mart

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Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2010, 06:53:17 PM »
To be honest you'd be hard pushed to get a chubby bloke with a fire extinguisher up most of the roads, yellow lines or no yellow lines.

That argument is a load of old pony.

Come to think of it, you couldn't get a pony up there either.
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Offline bobwright

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Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
« Reply #18 on: November 24, 2010, 01:21:52 AM »
Dave has broadly spelt out the difficulties with the Yellow line thing. A couple years back we asked for action to be taken to create more parking spaces.  Halcrow did a survey and possible lines to be safely removed were identified The survey had flaws in my view specifically in the Dean St/Newburn Crescent area where real possibilities exist to assist resident parking. I am afraid progress has been slow and is probably down to costs.

Regarding the Regent Circus development as previously stated I believe a mistake was made by including a supermarket within the Cultural development. I understand the scheme may depend on this development however in my view the client should have had a split site with the Supermarket being to a more suitable location. It should also be remembered there was a conflict with the Modus development not only did an objection get raised against the BHS development in order to get/keep key shops into the Granville St project the scheme also contained a food hall and a cinema. It is going to be tougher for any developer replacing Modus, a food hall would have suited the Granville St site better.

The Libs did fight hard for a gate, Labour would have fought for a better scheme. I believe the acceptance was based on the fear of failing again and a drive to get rid of the college. What happened to the vision of getting the best for Swindon? This vision was applied to the Pipers Way scheme but appears to have been sacrificed for expedience. Perhaps one significant difference between current Swindon Labour thinking and opposition thinking is long term planning has to be supported not sacrificed. One final thought what if the supermarket is 24 hour, will a gate help?

Offline Ringer

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Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
« Reply #19 on: November 24, 2010, 07:54:34 AM »

Regarding the Regent Circus development as previously stated I believe a mistake was made by including a supermarket within the Cultural development. I understand the scheme may depend on this development however in my view the client should have had a split site with the Supermarket being to a more suitable location. It should also be remembered there was a conflict with the Modus development not only did an objection get raised against the BHS development in order to get/keep key shops into the Granville St project the scheme also contained a food hall and a cinema. It is going to be tougher for any developer replacing Modus, a food hall would have suited the Granville St site better.

One final thought what if the supermarket is 24 hour, will a gate help?


Dave/Bob

It may appear incredulous to some that councillors can come on here and point out the difficulties of removing a bit of yellow paint! Then crow about building libraries schools and Regent Circus, how come it is so easy to do those things and not get some paint removed? Why does it take only 2 years to build a new library and yet it is 20 years and a yellow line is still there? Please explain why you as councillors cannot achieve this? I spotted the excuse clue it was the "Money what does it" a library £12,000,000 how much to remove lines £12,000, £1200 or £120?

I think councillors could be accused of trying to insult ordinary people's intelligence when in one breath claim thumbs up to us we cracked the old college eyesore and then in the next say sorry it is so difficult to remove a splodge of yellow paint? Some of you will probably pat yourselves on the back when it comes to talking about selling the Oasis? But despite such a difficult and complex deal you cannot burn a bit of paint off a road and take down a sign?  Is the truth that  it is not a political priority? Or have you no power or worse are you all part of a  rude spittle flecked shouting talking shop? Do you ever sit down and talk/email/write to the Greenhalgh chappie who appears to have responsibility for amongst other things roads, transport, planning and cabinet proclamations? Can you not ask Greeneye to fix it for you? After all you are you not all elected representatives, working hard all year around for Swindon?

Bob will Muse fail because it cannot knock out some cans of beans, a few sandwiches and bottled water from its planned paradise? I read on TS that the car park it will require needs to be built by the council?

Is it possible to tell us  what it cost to sign the  Modus deal http://www.talkswindon.org/index.php?topic=3600.0 in the house of commons, travel, officer time etc? It may have been better spent on yellow paint removal?

The gate it is not just a supermarket are bars and restaurants not in the development as well? As the economy is now 24hrs will they be open almost Dawn to Dawn? With people and deliveries taking place?
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