Author Topic: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again  (Read 11484 times)

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Offline Muggins

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Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
« Reply #20 on: November 24, 2010, 08:57:38 AM »
"Why does it take only 2 years to build a new library and yet it is 20 years and a yellow line is still there"

It didn't take just two years to build a new library, it might have taken that time for the building to be erected but that issue was ongoing for something like 30 years before it actually happened.

What happened to get the yellow lines there in the first place?  It's funny how we can't (never have been able to) get done what needs doing, so my thought is that something must have triggered off the need for yellow lines, what was that? 
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Offline Steve Wakefield

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Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
« Reply #21 on: November 24, 2010, 09:57:26 AM »
"Why does it take only 2 years to build a new library and yet it is 20 years and a yellow line is still there"

It didn't take just two years to build a new library, it might have taken that time for the building to be erected but that issue was ongoing for something like 30 years before it actually happened.

What happened to get the yellow lines there in the first place?  It's funny how we can't (never have been able to) get done what needs doing, so my thought is that something must have triggered off the need for yellow lines, what was that?

Are you pointing out that Stan Pajack was on the county council and I think he was on libraries committee, is it a bit of a coincidence that it took 30 years, but to correct you I have been at openings and Rod Bluh actually said it was 50 years?  WCC only gave the Library service over to SBC in 1997 Give credit where credit is due, not a bad achievement that it was built and opened within 8 years of SBC taking over and yes within 3 years of the conservative administration taking office.

Muggins you know as well as I do it was to ensure that people parked in the car parks to underpin a revenue dtream and to keep the streets available for  residents in the local area. I am sure that at the time residents were very pleased that they would be able to park outside their houses.

I am surprised that it is so difficult to get the lines sorted, but then I am not the local councillor. I know that we have been able to get a culvert enlarged and a new school built in my ward in less than 4 years. However moving a dog bin is a gordian knot that is why I am so enthusiastic about 1 swindon. I am sure that Bob and Dave will get their 1 Swindon to sort the lines. Hat tip to cllr Dale Heenan who is working hard to get this up and running.

For those that don't know 1 Swindon is the child of CP2 and Connecting People Connecting Places, and the grandchild of Area Panels/forums so it comes from good parentage. You will all have your own individual 1 Swindon Director, who will co ordinate everything in that area, unless I have that wrong? Cllr Bob Wright is more of an expert on this subject so he maybe able to join in and tell you exactly what is happening?

Not having much yellow paint or other restrictions on my area I know little about the vagaries of a 20 year stretch of yellow lines, so will refrain from commenting. I would say that in the past I have objected to lines when they were proposed, that have in the end not been put down. I do this because as I have learned the hard way once that paint is down it is a devil's own job to get it removed. Give credit where credit is due Cllr Greenhalgh has I have to admit been good to Toothill and Westlea as we have not had a rash of restrictions, lines or calming measures.

I am sure if Bob and Dave had a meeting with Peter he would be able to assist them in some way.
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Offline 20Eyes

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Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
« Reply #22 on: November 24, 2010, 12:39:43 PM »
BTW, the Council don't appear to be at all concerned that a road next to mine has just had its entire length of double yellow lines dug up and then tarmac re-applied, leaving the road without any double yellows.

Do developers have immunity when it comes to removing yellow lines? I expect the one in question does as it bought otherwise unusable land from... oh yes, the Council. It's amazing how many blind eyes have been turned during their extended period of throwing up shitty flats.
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Offline Muggins

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Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
« Reply #23 on: November 24, 2010, 03:28:11 PM »
Surely there was a public notice in the paper, usually is, and notices on lamposts etc.
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline 20Eyes

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Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
« Reply #24 on: November 24, 2010, 04:46:40 PM »
Surely there was a public notice in the paper, usually is, and notices on lamposts etc.

Nope. Not for the road digging there wasn't. They dug up the entire double yellow line area and simply tarmaced back over it once they'd finished. Hey presto - no yellow lines.
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Offline DaveWood

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Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
« Reply #25 on: November 24, 2010, 05:17:46 PM »

Regarding the Regent Circus development as previously stated I believe a mistake was made by including a supermarket within the Cultural development. I understand the scheme may depend on this development however in my view the client should have had a split site with the Supermarket being to a more suitable location. It should also be remembered there was a conflict with the Modus development not only did an objection get raised against the BHS development in order to get/keep key shops into the Granville St project the scheme also contained a food hall and a cinema. It is going to be tougher for any developer replacing Modus, a food hall would have suited the Granville St site better.

One final thought what if the supermarket is 24 hour, will a gate help?


Dave/Bob

It may appear incredulous to some that councillors can come on here and point out the difficulties of removing a bit of yellow paint! Then crow about building libraries schools and Regent Circus, how come it is so easy to do those things and not get some paint removed? Why does it take only 2 years to build a new library and yet it is 20 years and a yellow line is still there? Please explain why you as councillors cannot achieve this? I spotted the excuse clue it was the "Money what does it" a library £12,000,000 how much to remove lines £12,000, £1200 or £120?

I think councillors could be accused of trying to insult ordinary people's intelligence when in one breath claim thumbs up to us we cracked the old college eyesore and then in the next say sorry it is so difficult to remove a splodge of yellow paint? Some of you will probably pat yourselves on the back when it comes to talking about selling the Oasis? But despite such a difficult and complex deal you cannot burn a bit of paint off a road and take down a sign?  Is the truth that  it is not a political priority? Or have you no power or worse are you all part of a  rude spittle flecked shouting talking shop? Do you ever sit down and talk/email/write to the Greenhalgh chappie who appears to have responsibility for amongst other things roads, transport, planning and cabinet proclamations? Can you not ask Greeneye to fix it for you? After all you are you not all elected representatives, working hard all year around for Swindon?

Bob will Muse fail because it cannot knock out some cans of beans, a few sandwiches and bottled water from its planned paradise? I read on TS that the car park it will require needs to be built by the council?

Is it possible to tell us  what it cost to sign the  Modus deal http://www.talkswindon.org/index.php?topic=3600.0 in the house of commons, travel, officer time etc? It may have been better spent on yellow paint removal?

The gate it is not just a supermarket are bars and restaurants not in the development as well? As the economy is now 24hrs will they be open almost Dawn to Dawn? With people and deliveries taking place?


Correct, we have no power to remove yellow lines or to order their removal, or to allocate money within that budget for the purpose. 

Bob and I were elected in 2006 on a wave of Residents Parking dissatisfcation - not with yellow lines, in the case, but with the idea of only allowing one permit per house - and following then Bob and I have worked together on the RP problem.

We had two years of very positive working along with Peter G and the 'Residents Parking Advisory Group'.  That group did some great work and plans were put in place to remove 330 cars worth of yellow lines.

Two years ago that plan eventually got time and funding.  Halcrow were employed to do a survey of Yellow Lines - to ensure the identified 330 spaces were legal - and by the time work began the number had dropped to a dozen or two.

Two years work and only a dozen or two spaces worth of lines removed.

We were then told this could be a rolling programme but that the money would not be available to continue for another couple of years.

The RPAG group abruptly stopped meeting when, behind closed doors, there was another big hike in permit prices.  Peter G never convened it again.

As we reached that period where money would have been available again, the budget squeeze happened.

Some residents talked Peter G into looking at one street in Old Town in terms of removing lines, but then Peter G linked the money involved with the college site.  Meaning it could only happen when the college development was successful.

But then CPCP got on the case.

As reported in the leaflet with the prospect of localised spending we now have a real chance to take up lines.  Astoundingly the transport department said their predecessors 'got it wrong' the previous time when they claimed all those YLs could not be taken up.  It turns out this could have all happened two years ago.

But at least now we have a scheme where next year - political weather permitting - the lines will really start to come up.

Offline Drone

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Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
« Reply #26 on: November 24, 2010, 05:47:13 PM »
^ a frightening insight into the political process!!
derp derp herp herp derp

Offline DaveWood

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Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
« Reply #27 on: November 24, 2010, 06:19:33 PM »
^ a frightening insight into the political process!!

Tell me about it.

Offline Drone

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Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
« Reply #28 on: November 24, 2010, 06:21:43 PM »
So is this an example of where CPCP could be really quite effective?
derp derp herp herp derp

Offline DaveWood

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Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
« Reply #29 on: November 24, 2010, 06:39:54 PM »
So is this an example of where CPCP could be really quite effective?

Indeed.  And there are other examples in the Town Centre cluster that have fallen victim to lack of political will centrally.

Offline Mart

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Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
« Reply #30 on: November 24, 2010, 09:00:22 PM »
It's amazing how many blind eyes have been turned during their extended period of throwing up shitty flats.

That would be Belle Vue Road?
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Offline bobwright

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Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
« Reply #31 on: November 24, 2010, 09:54:20 PM »
Ringer you will gather that Dave and I do work together and we have worked with Peter Greenhalgh to improve residents parking and that also includes yellow line removal. My main difficulty in politics has not been the opposition but the culture which has developed and exists which prevents such simple things as line removal. Whilst things might appear to be incredulous and frightening I hope you continue to challenge.

To make changes such as yellow line removal a Traffic Regulation Order (TRO) is required. I think this costs between £1500 and £2000 each. Officers try to get as many changes as possible on each order. I suspect the orders exist to help planning/safety/consideration and objection. On top of each TRO cost is the actual work cost. Around £30000 was allocated to remove yellow lines and improve residents parking however all that got removed was the £30000.

I hope I have not crowed but informed. I do challenge the Regent Circus development design, it does not reflect or compliment the excellence of the Library design (designed by an officer of the council). In my experience supermarket deliveries can occur at all hours although I do except the other businesses will probably shut by early morning.

My point on the Granville St development is if you take away the key features such as the cinema and lose key shops to the BHS development it will require another destination feature. Any helpful suggestion might inspire the project development and won't be a repeat of the existing provision.

Sorry I don't have access to the costs involved in the Modus project although in this new world of transparency they might become available?
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Offline Chris Watts

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Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
« Reply #32 on: November 24, 2010, 10:21:09 PM »
To make changes such as yellow line removal a Traffic Regulation Order (TRO) is required. I think this costs between £1500 and £2000 each. Officers try to get as many changes as possible on each order. I suspect the orders exist to help planning/safety/consideration and objection. On top of each TRO cost is the actual work cost. Around £30000 was allocated to remove yellow lines and improve residents parking however all that got removed was the £30000.


Have I got this wrong, or are you saying that the £30,000 was swallowed up in consultation to see if the lines could be safely removed leaving nothing in the pot to actually physically remove the lines?
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Offline bobwright

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Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
« Reply #33 on: November 24, 2010, 10:34:12 PM »
Chris sorry if my wording led you to the wrong conclusion. Due to other priorities and cuts the money was no longer available. It was not swallowed up by the consultation, this occurred prior to the financial pressures stopping the intended work.

Offline 20Eyes

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Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
« Reply #34 on: November 30, 2010, 10:00:38 AM »
It's amazing how many blind eyes have been turned during their extended period of throwing up shitty flats.

That would be Belle Vue Road?

It would indeed. With 'Vicarage Court', or whatever they've called the latest prison-esque block of bedsits, being a nice reminder of everything that's wrong with the Council/Planning Department/Developer relationship dynamic.
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Offline DaveWood

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Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
« Reply #35 on: November 30, 2010, 05:24:02 PM »
Quote
Painting Black Paint onto the yellow lines is deemed as criminal damage and should be reported to the police.
 
With regards to parking on the said blacked out lines, we would issue a £70 PCN.
 
We have taken this to adjudication before and won.
 
Hope this helps
 
Regards
[Council Officer]

Offline 20Eyes

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Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
« Reply #36 on: November 30, 2010, 05:32:14 PM »
Thanks, Dave.

Interesting that they can issue parking tickets to people who would potentially have no idea whatsoever that they'd parked incorrectly.
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Offline mikbrains

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Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
« Reply #37 on: March 22, 2011, 02:54:29 PM »
Thanks, Dave.

Interesting that they can issue parking tickets to people who would potentially have no idea whatsoever that they'd parked incorrectly.
Very old forum but interesting as I picked up some information a few years back on the SA site as a regular there gave a few interesting facts as to the dreaded yellows. The issue was about a residential area where it is blanketed with double yellows and the yella perils appear at 6 am in the morning and issued hundreds of tickets. He/she pointed out the law defines double yellow lines as a means to keep main routes free from congestion to protect business. An expert was engaged who examined various areas and found all the lines did not conform to the legal requirements nor signage. He examined  Traffic orders which are required to be posted in law before implementation and also found that flawed as well. A third point being where a car was parked on double yellows and the pavement. It appears that being the law was decriminalised to allow council enforcement the council cannot issue an FPN as the higher offence nof obstruction remains a Police matter--with remarkably a lesser fine. The law was again quoted claiming when a residential area has insufficient parking (public) and insufficient off street parking which prevents the residents from parking legally by virtue of excessive yellows it can be construed as corrupt practice when councils target residential areas at 6 am. Fines by stealth. All the revenue from double yellows in law is supposed to be used for road maintenance.  Interesting.
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Offline Karsten

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Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
« Reply #38 on: March 23, 2011, 04:26:11 PM »
Are Double yellow lines worth this much discussion?
Are not the Residents Parking fines and what happens to the funds more important?
or
Why do visitor permits expire every year and why hasn’t any councillor tried to remove the expiry?

I personally think most Yellow Lines in Zone K are there for a purpose.
Sighting and road safety come before the inability to park.
I've seen cars having to brake hard in Birch Street to avoid kids crossing by Robert Le Kyng.
A Parent had parked on the double Yellow and was obscuring the view of the corner.
Luckily cars don't usually drive that fast.

What I find really stupid is the Scratch and Win visitor permits.
Why can they not be printed on normal card as they used to be?
They should also remove the redundant fields for name and address.
If you remember each permit was originally individually printed with our names and addresses on them for "Security" and to avoid “counterfitting” and then posted separately to the registered address.

I got pissed off about this a few years ago and reported SBC to its own data protection officer and they had to stop printing names and addresses.
So why are the fields still there and why are they still being individually printed.
It is idiotic and a waste of money.  The printing costs half the amount they are sold for.
If the permits were simplified and the expiry date removed, then the printing could be put out to tender.
I am sure they could reduce the printing cost to 1/3 or less.

Offline mikbrains

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Re: The 'Yellow Lines' thing... again
« Reply #39 on: March 23, 2011, 07:28:27 PM »
Parking will always be a problem in some areas; especially those with little or no off street parking. Of course there has to be clear areas close to schools as well as safe crossing areas. Unfortunately there will always be those who do not think parking and obscuring the view around schools.
Generally residents parking permits are over subscribed and create more problems.
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