Linked Events

  • Full Council Meeting: October 07, 2010

Author Topic: 7th October - Full Council  (Read 11645 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Geoff Reid

  • Twitter: @Geoff_Reid
  • Active But Odd
  • Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 10109
  • Gender: Male
  • Bald as a chimps arse
7th October - Full Council
« on: October 01, 2010, 03:47:58 PM »
Full council starts at 7pm

Guaranteed to be an *interesting* meeting

Try and arrive at 6.15 pm to chat with other members of the public and get a sense of what's going on :)

[countdown=10,7,2010,19,00]Meeting has now started![/countdown]
« Last Edit: October 03, 2010, 11:08:20 PM by Dougal »



Offline Rochelle

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 286
Re: 7th October - Full Council
« Reply #1 on: October 01, 2010, 04:13:36 PM »
I'll be at the Civic from 5.30 so I'll have time to chat to anyone who feels like it before briefing and meeting. Am happy to stay for a while afterwards too as long as it doesn't get stupidly late, I need my beauty sleep!

Offline Chav

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2385
  • Gender: Female
  • INNIT!
Re: 7th October - Full Council
« Reply #2 on: October 01, 2010, 09:44:18 PM »
I hope to get there, as there are a few things I am in interested in.
"Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects." -- Lester B. Pearson.

Offline Steve Wakefield

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2566
  • Gender: Male
Re: 7th October - Full Council
« Reply #3 on: October 01, 2010, 10:05:31 PM »
I will be there and I hope the public are too, as today I had complaints about schools transport.  ;)
All posts on this forum are my own opinion and do not represent the views of any council or any political party.  :banana:

Offline moley

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 733
  • Gender: Male
  • Hello !
Re: 7th October - Full Council
« Reply #4 on: October 01, 2010, 11:17:40 PM »
a slight tangent (unfortunately I can't make it on Wednesday as I have to look after the kids as my wife has a prior engagement..)

Happened to listen to a Ewan McColl CD from about 20 years ago tonight... funny that almost all the songs are topical again...

Moley

Offline Steve Wakefield

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2566
  • Gender: Male
Re: 7th October - Full Council
« Reply #5 on: October 01, 2010, 11:33:21 PM »
Moley

FYI its a Thursday, full council is always on a Thursday, something to do with the shops closing early on that day as a lot of cllrs are shop keepers? That is also why elections are held on Thurdays.....hmm Quill pen democracy and outdated ways, but some say that's modern SBC for you?  It wants dragging and screaming into the 21st century!

I was watching a repeat of the good old days http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Good_Old_Days from 30 years ago funny that its almost as traditional as quill pen democracy in SBC. Maybe it can best described as a sort of pastiche of 1910 rather than 2010?
All posts on this forum are my own opinion and do not represent the views of any council or any political party.  :banana:

Offline poemogram

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 200
  • Hello !
Re: 7th October - Full Council
« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2010, 11:36:57 PM »
How can I put this...

and I stand corrected...

and I may be away from Swindon on 7th

but

from my experience of lobbying outside Euclid Street before Council Meetings is that ...it's a possible press coverage and photo op after the event...
it's a possible, not always , that a key politician or two may be brave/courteous/politically astute enough to speak to the assembled protestors
chants may emerge, posters may be held and may be read
public gallery and few spare seats will be filled
Mayor this time will not make the protestors wait
Politicians will grandstand (more politely perhaps this time)

Votes will go precisely as the political parties' pre-meeting has so decided

There have been very few occasions (someone may actually know if there have been any occasions) when public protest outside the meeting and via questions inside the meeting and speeches by councillors have ever changed the party political 3 line whip.

Experienced councillors will have seen it all before, newer councillors will learn how the 'democracy game' is played

 Some councillors - who may be sensitive to feel the 'heat and anger' of the protestors, may vow in future to try to be differently democratic and speak louder next time at the party political pre-meeting...and then realise they actually have to build their credibility within the party and learn who the movers and shakers within it are and then manouevre to become one...then remember those protestors and prepare motions and vote accordingly.

I even sound cynical to myself...yet am trying to be realisitic and search with others for ways to change the system.

I a sure it will be a successful and voiciferous campaign and protest.

nb a hint is to discover exactly when the agenda papers become available for public access (usually a few days before the meeting by law)...then decide best tactics and wording for oppostion amendments and lobby them to propose them...and to study papers to see what will be most incisive questions to put in public question time.

Tony

 


Offline moley

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 733
  • Gender: Male
  • Hello !
Re: 7th October - Full Council
« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2010, 11:41:21 PM »
Moley

FYI its a Thursday, full council is always on a Thursday, something to do with the shops closing early on that day as a lot of cllrs are shop keepers? That is also why elections are held on Thurdays.....hmm Quill pen democracy and outdated ways, but some say that's modern SBC for you?  It wants dragging and screaming into the 21st century!


 :idiot2:

Will see what I can do... might not be popular at home for Thursday as I'm off to London on Friday  :embarassed:  As I've just booked that up you'd think I'd have known that the 7th was a Thursday!

Moley

Offline Chris Watts

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 890
  • Gender: Male
  • Hello !
Re: 7th October - Full Council
« Reply #8 on: October 02, 2010, 11:47:40 AM »
Moley

FYI its a Thursday, full council is always on a Thursday, something to do with the shops closing early on that day as a lot of cllrs are shop keepers? That is also why elections are held on Thurdays.....hmm Quill pen democracy and outdated ways, but some say that's modern SBC for you?  It wants dragging and screaming into the 21st century!

I was watching a repeat of the good old days http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Good_Old_Days from 30 years ago funny that its almost as traditional as quill pen democracy in SBC. Maybe it can best described as a sort of pastiche of 1910 rather than 2010?


I thought half day closing was on a Wednesday. (Just old enough to remember).
Small Print: Member of the Labour Party. GMB Accompanying Rep. IT consultant on sabatical.  Postings may contain political bias. If you have an adverse reaction please desist from reading. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental.

Offline Muggins

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 8535
Re: 7th October - Full Council
« Reply #9 on: October 02, 2010, 05:55:56 PM »
Chris, it certainly was Wednesday early closing in Swindon.  Them were the days!
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline Chav

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2385
  • Gender: Female
  • INNIT!
Re: 7th October - Full Council
« Reply #10 on: October 02, 2010, 06:33:00 PM »
I will be there and I hope the public are too, as today I had complaints about schools transport.  ;)

Hmm school transport !
I can tell you this, those who deal with the day to day running of the school transport , who are also front line workers have worked tirelessly since the optimization exercise was orchestrated to try and sort out the catastrophic mess that was created by it.

Some things need to be thought about before making assumptions.
Special needs transport is so different from mainstream transport. It is not a case of bums on seats.

I know that money has to be saved, and it still can be with school transport system except the bright spark who though they had it sussed clearly did not and had no incline of what special needs is all about. I am talking kids with profound and multiple learning difficulties including very complex medical needs, as well as those who are severely autistic. Autistic youngster have certain traits such as that they do not like lots of noise, do not cope with crowded places, and do not cope well with disruption, unsettled routines, and do not cope well with change. If there was not certain interventions, things could have ended up with serious , actually very serious consequences.

The person(s) carrying out the cost cutting optimisation exercise could not have risk assessed each route, then again maybe it wasn't part of their job, however it should have been done in proper consultation with those who work closely with these kids including the front line transport workers, parents/carers and and schools.

Cost cutting has to be done, but please don't take shortcuts as it could cost quite more than one bargained for in the long run. Health & Safety first.

The route opitmisation actually contradicted some of SBCs own documents, especially those linked to transport , the every child matters and the 'Swindons Sustainable Modes of Travel to School Strategy August 2010 doc.
Quote
This document sets out Swindon Borough Council’s Sustainable Modes of
Travel to School (SMoTS) Strategy.
The 2006 Act
We have produced this document to meet a requirement placed upon us by
the Education and Inspections Act 2006. This requires Local Authorities to
assess the travel and transport needs of children and young people in the
area and to undertake an audit of the routes to and from school. The Act
states that this information should then be used to develop and promote a
strategy on sustainable transport to facilitate safer, healthier and more
sustainable journeys to, and between, schools and other educational
institutions.
Quote
What we want to achieve…
Our vision in Swindon is that all children and young people will be able
to travel to their place of learning as safely and sustainably as possible
and develop into the future, the skills and desire to maintain life long
sustainable travel habits.
We have seven strategic priorities – these are:
• To work closely with schools, young people and their parents and
carers, public transport operators, other agencies and the wider
community to ensure an holistic approach to the journey to
school is taken.
• To provide suitable facilities and infrastructure so that all children
and young people are able to travel to school sustainably.
• Improve the health of young people through an increase in
walking and cycling to school across the Borough.
• Ensure young people are safe on their journey to, from and
between school.
• To use information and education to raise awareness of
sustainable transport options.
• To make transport accessible to all children and young people in
order to improve access to facilities and quality of life.
• To provide a strategic foundation for the development and
support of School Travel Plans across Swindon.
Quote
Children and young people deserve the best start in life’
Swindon Borough Council Children Services
‘Helping to keep Swindon moving safely’
Swindon Borough Council Highway Network Management Services

What I would like to know if during this optimisation exercise that a child was seriously injured because of the dynamics of a very crowded bus - I am talking say 14 kids very complex needs, who would be held accountable at the end of the day ?

People need to start listening and consulting properly and working together when making budget cuts as we know this is happening, but to do it safely and not run at it like a bull in a china shop.
These kids deserve better .

This is in your own document SBC, so adhere to it of tear it up, as it is clearly not worth the paper it is written on.
Quote
• To work closely with schools, young people and their parents and
carers, public transport operators, other agencies and the wider
community to ensure an holistic approach to the journey to
school is taken.

I will step down off my soap box now !





"Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects." -- Lester B. Pearson.

Offline Steve Wakefield

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2566
  • Gender: Male
Re: 7th October - Full Council
« Reply #11 on: October 02, 2010, 07:16:38 PM »
Chav

Soapbox is there room for me? I have been told that some children with specific and special needs are being picked up at 07.05 and are being dropped off at 09.15, also the buses used to pick people up local to each other but now they can be driven from one side of town toanother. I am also told its the software a programme and consultant has been used to work it all out.

I ask myself Why did the council not ask parents, escorts and schools and the children themselves?
All posts on this forum are my own opinion and do not represent the views of any council or any political party.  :banana:

Offline Chav

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2385
  • Gender: Female
  • INNIT!
Re: 7th October - Full Council
« Reply #12 on: October 02, 2010, 08:03:49 PM »
Chav

Soapbox is there room for me? I have been told that some children with specific and special needs are being picked up at 07.05 and are being dropped off at 09.15, also the buses used to pick people up local to each other but now they can be driven from one side of town toanother. I am also told its the software a programme and consultant has been used to work it all out.

I ask myself Why did the council not ask parents, escorts and schools and the children themselves?

I don't know why - but this is clearly something that is lacking. 'Holistic' means to look at as a whole.
It appears as though it is a case of SBC is as SBC does.

The top should be seeking advice from those on the front line - those who have got it right for years as they have the experience and knowledge, those who know the needs of these kids, who understand SEN , who are in touch with the parents on a regular basis.

Its not bloody rocket science that 'creative problem solving' is a big part of leadership, and sometimes in getting the job done, means to use the relevant resources around you to do it good and to do it right. In this case they could have consulted with those who have run the day to day home/school transport on a daily basis, consulted with the parents, consulted with the schools.
(it could have saved them a few K's in consultancy fees)

Its about working together and getting results , by doing it the right way !
"Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects." -- Lester B. Pearson.

Offline moley

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 733
  • Gender: Male
  • Hello !
Re: 7th October - Full Council
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2010, 08:06:08 PM »
and at the end of the day if some of the kids have been cooped up in a bus for 2 hours before getting to school they may become disruptive.

(I know that if my son had to endure that and the bus was very rowdy, he would probably be fairly distressed by the time he got to school).  Hopefully he won't have to travel far when he transfers to secondary school, partly for that reason).

Moley

Offline Mart

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5249
  • Where's my cow?
Re: 7th October - Full Council
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2010, 10:33:33 PM »
I am also told its the software a programme and consultant has been used to work it all out.


Is it Paragon?

I recall, in my yoof, using a fag packet and a pencil to work out a better solution. If you want a transport solution you can do a lot worse than consulting the chaps who drive it.

Oh, that won't work here will it?
Sometimes I think you have to march right in and demand your rights, even if you don’t know what your rights are, or who the person is you’re talking to. Then, on the way out, slam the door.

Offline Geoff Reid

  • Twitter: @Geoff_Reid
  • Active But Odd
  • Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 10109
  • Gender: Male
  • Bald as a chimps arse
Re: 7th October - Full Council
« Reply #15 on: October 03, 2010, 02:46:40 AM »

Funny that, I'm currently 'enjoying' a 12hr shift which has been worked out with Paragon.

I cannot keep to its schedule without serious and prolonged periods of law breakibg, ergo I haven't tried to.

Software produced routes and schedules, if done well and realisticly, are useful aids for drivers and ancillery staff.  However, when they are treated by management as 'written in stone' and are treated as 'inflexible rules', drivers are placed under stress by the expectation to comply with them, concentration focuses on the clock and the right pedal and people die.

It's my professional opinion that drivers, whether PSV, HGV, minibus or cars, should never be placed under any other expectation other than they perform as safely and efficiently as possible without putting themselves or others in danger.

Paragon, for example, demands maximum legal speeds at all times, regardless of weather or traffic conditions...

Offline Outoftowner

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1632
  • Gender: Male
  • Hello !
Re: 7th October - Full Council
« Reply #16 on: October 03, 2010, 09:44:52 AM »
geoff

Quote
Paragon, for example, demands maximum legal speeds at all times, regardless of weather or traffic conditions...

It is an extremely stupid person that believes driving at 30m.p.h in a 30m.p.h zone is always safe. If that stupid person then writes a transpoprt software programme, it is just waiting for the next link in the chain to create an accident. In this case, the link is another stupid person buying the software and without considering what he is doing, requiring others to comply with it.
What's it all about?

Offline Bogomil

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 571
  • Hello !
Re: 7th October - Full Council
« Reply #17 on: October 03, 2010, 12:57:45 PM »
Paragon, for example, demands maximum legal speeds at all times, regardless of weather or traffic conditions...

it only does this IF it has not been set up correctly. Speed limits can be varied, including time variations for rush hour traffic or delays for known roadworks.

in fact, IF it is set up correctly, which can be combined with a vehicle tracking system, it can automatically re-plan routes based on the historical data.

Like the council, the Paragon system is often poorly managed and used without any though or skill in updating routing information.

I’ve said it before and I have no doubt I’ll say it again. It’s not the fault of the system but the people who don’t know how to properly use the flaming system.

Offline Chris Watts

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 890
  • Gender: Male
  • Hello !
Re: 7th October - Full Council
« Reply #18 on: October 03, 2010, 01:05:11 PM »
Google Maps has live traffic. Systems are in place to adjust real time. You would think a system like the one you are talking about would have a module to tie into this technology.
Small Print: Member of the Labour Party. GMB Accompanying Rep. IT consultant on sabatical.  Postings may contain political bias. If you have an adverse reaction please desist from reading. Any resemblance to real persons, living or dead, is purely coincidental.

Offline moley

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 733
  • Gender: Male
  • Hello !
Re: 7th October - Full Council
« Reply #19 on: October 03, 2010, 01:20:06 PM »
Google Maps has live traffic. Systems are in place to adjust real time. You would think a system like the one you are talking about would have a module to tie into this technology.

Don't you have to pay to incorporate the live traffic in another application?

(I know that whilst a lot of their stuff is free to us browsing from home it's not necessarily free to include in other applications as they don't get the advertising footfall that way)

Moley