Author Topic: Lamplighters: Mechanics Institute In Imminent Danger Of Collapse?  (Read 47886 times)

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Offline uopuims

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Re: Lamplighters: Mechanics Institute In Imminent Danger Of Collapse?
« Reply #100 on: September 18, 2010, 12:35:09 PM »
Isn't all this the fault of Sue Bates?

Offline Geoff Reid

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Re: Lamplighters: Mechanics Institute In Imminent Danger Of Collapse?
« Reply #101 on: September 18, 2010, 01:35:00 PM »
Isn't all this the fault of Sue Bates?

No, I don't think so, but I think we should take a fresh look at this from a slightly different angle.

I'm going to wander off for a little while, re-organise one of my archives, and kick a fresh thread off....

Offline Drone

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Re: Lamplighters 20: Mechanics Institute
« Reply #102 on: September 18, 2010, 05:09:13 PM »
Oh I forgot to add that I made a visit this afternoon and the bare roof trusses are in a perilous state. 

In fact the people I spoke to told me they were in imminent danger of collapse, but I think we knew that anyway. 

I can't see how this work can be completed  quickly and without significant cost.

from having visited there this early this afternoon, estimated time frame for the roof being removed looks like next friday. it wont be monday (which from what i was told was the target date).......interesting day today

It was still standing when I went past earlier. the traffic is a bloody nightmare, though.
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Offline Mellon

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Re: Lamplighters: Mechanics Institute In Imminent Danger Of Collapse?
« Reply #103 on: September 20, 2010, 07:51:47 AM »
I'm still surprised that there's absolutely no containment procedure in place, the roofs halfway off and there could be little particles of nasty stuff floating around the town centre (not trying to alarm anyone) but it should be sheeted up as they go. It WOULD take longer to get the work done but it would greatly reduce the 'risk' of anything floating about.
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Offline Richard Symonds

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Re: Lamplighters: Mechanics Institute In Imminent Danger Of Collapse?
« Reply #104 on: September 20, 2010, 08:08:54 AM »
I'm still surprised that there's absolutely no containment procedure in place, the roofs halfway off and there could be little particles of nasty stuff floating around the town centre (not trying to alarm anyone) but it should be sheeted up as they go. It WOULD take longer to get the work done but it would greatly reduce the 'risk' of anything floating about.

Maybe Mellon on exposing the roof structure, fragile as it is, they have decided the risk factor was unfounded. 

I wonder what the health and safety executive have to say about this development?
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Offline Mellon

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Re: Lamplighters: Mechanics Institute In Imminent Danger Of Collapse?
« Reply #105 on: September 20, 2010, 08:49:11 AM »
Good point Richard, although the safety curtain is made of abspestos and there's years of pigeon and rat 'matter' splattered all over the place and that's excluding the peeling paint, wood dust, tar, decaying plastics and soft metals. With the addition that waste materials are being brought down to earth by a hoisted skip......would it not make better sense to scaffold the roof and work from a platform with a waste tube going to a covered skip? Or even a roofed skip with the foldaway doors on them? Even the way they are doing it now baffles me slightly, I'm not an expert on removing materials but there is a safer way to do it.
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Offline Richard Symonds

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Re: Lamplighters: Mechanics Institute In Imminent Danger Of Collapse?
« Reply #106 on: September 20, 2010, 10:43:45 AM »
The workforce did tell me that the place has enormous amount of Pigeon dropping to contend with and I wonder if this contamination necessitates the use of Breathing Aparatus?

Or is it that they are working in the open means this is not required?
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Offline Muggins

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Re: Lamplighters: Mechanics Institute In Imminent Danger Of Collapse?
« Reply #107 on: September 20, 2010, 02:03:00 PM »
If they are red blooded workmen they will not work without all the Health and Safety things in place. 

We can't hold a blessed fete without a risk assessment. I can't see they would let this go ahead without the same.
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Offline Mellon

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Re: Lamplighters: Mechanics Institute In Imminent Danger Of Collapse?
« Reply #108 on: September 20, 2010, 02:26:43 PM »
apparently they have everything they need up there......white overalls, gloves, safety cage, skip, saw, crowbar, hardhats, safety goggels.

every time they take materials off of the roof from one side apparently the building is inspected for any signs of movement and they are taking measurements using lasers from the ground to see if it has dropped or slided.
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Offline Daniel Rose

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Re: Lamplighters: Mechanics Institute In Imminent Danger Of Collapse?
« Reply #109 on: September 20, 2010, 04:29:11 PM »
Taking this whole thread in context how about this: With the help of Geoff or whoever else on TS we organise and promote a live forum for an evening. I will be a guest contributor officially from the Trust and will happily answer whatever questions people have, explain our ideas and take on board any thoughts people have and report them back to the Board to inform our work. Essentially a public meeting online, perhaps there is some way of providing a set of slides and images to go alongside it which will help bring things to life and inform the discussion - I'm open to suggestions on this.

This approach would seem to me a much better use of time, effort and stimulating discussion in an organised fashion rather than going round in circles with none of us feeling like we are getting answers or getting the message across. This way we can dedicate a block of time and see what happens.

So what do you think or do you have another idea(s)?

Offline Drone

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Re: Lamplighters: Mechanics Institute In Imminent Danger Of Collapse?
« Reply #110 on: September 20, 2010, 05:38:42 PM »
/\ Sounds a good idea to me!
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Offline Mellon

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Re: Lamplighters: Mechanics Institute In Imminent Danger Of Collapse?
« Reply #111 on: September 20, 2010, 06:24:50 PM »
Taking this whole thread in context how about this: With the help of Geoff or whoever else on TS we organise and promote a live forum for an evening. I will be a guest contributor officially from the Trust and will happily answer whatever questions people have, explain our ideas and take on board any thoughts people have and report them back to the Board to inform our work. Essentially a public meeting online, perhaps there is some way of providing a set of slides and images to go alongside it which will help bring things to life and inform the discussion - I'm open to suggestions on this.

This approach would seem to me a much better use of time, effort and stimulating discussion in an organised fashion rather than going round in circles with none of us feeling like we are getting answers or getting the message across. This way we can dedicate a block of time and see what happens.

So what do you think or do you have another idea(s)?

no different from whats happening now.......in my view, anyway is this  thread not stimulating enough?? i think its alright

answer the questions now........did the trust stop mr singh from developing the site?
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Offline Richard Symonds

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Re: Lamplighters: Mechanics Institute In Imminent Danger Of Collapse?
« Reply #112 on: September 20, 2010, 08:01:32 PM »
Taking this whole thread in context how about this: With the help of Geoff or whoever else on TS we organise and promote a live forum for an evening. I will be a guest contributor officially from the Trust and will happily answer whatever questions people have, explain our ideas and take on board any thoughts people have and report them back to the Board to inform our work. Essentially a public meeting online, perhaps there is some way of providing a set of slides and images to go alongside it which will help bring things to life and inform the discussion - I'm open to suggestions on this.

This approach would seem to me a much better use of time, effort and stimulating discussion in an organised fashion rather than going round in circles with none of us feeling like we are getting answers or getting the message across. This way we can dedicate a block of time and see what happens.

So what do you think or do you have another idea(s)?

Daniel for my part I would like you to put together an evening for which you did a detailed presentation about.

1.  Where we are now in detail.

2.  What you want to achieve in a detailed presentation of your plans

3. How you intend to achieve them - ie how you obtain ownership and then funding to achieve your plans

You choose the venue carefully, advertise it extensively and invite everyone who has an interest including Rod Bluh and Matthew Singh and English Heritage all of whom you should invite to speak.

You have got to up your game and just talking to us lot will not be enough.

When will you understand you are running out of time?
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Offline Daniel Rose

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Re: Lamplighters: Mechanics Institute In Imminent Danger Of Collapse?
« Reply #113 on: September 20, 2010, 08:25:08 PM »
Taking this whole thread in context how about this: With the help of Geoff or whoever else on TS we organise and promote a live forum for an evening. I will be a guest contributor officially from the Trust and will happily answer whatever questions people have, explain our ideas and take on board any thoughts people have and report them back to the Board to inform our work. Essentially a public meeting online, perhaps there is some way of providing a set of slides and images to go alongside it which will help bring things to life and inform the discussion - I'm open to suggestions on this.

This approach would seem to me a much better use of time, effort and stimulating discussion in an organised fashion rather than going round in circles with none of us feeling like we are getting answers or getting the message across. This way we can dedicate a block of time and see what happens.

So what do you think or do you have another idea(s)?

Daniel for my part I would like you to put together an evening for which you did a detailed presentation about.

1.  Where we are now in detail.

2.  What you want to achieve in a detailed presentation of your plans

3. How you intend to achieve them - ie how you obtain ownership and then funding to achieve your plans

You choose the venue carefully, advertise it extensively and invite everyone who has an interest including Rod Bluh and Matthew Singh and English Heritage all of whom you should invite to speak.

You have got to up your game and just talking to us lot will not be enough.

When will you understand you are running out of time?

I said that this was the immediate plan the other day and the arrangements are in hand. You make it sound like this is something new, while the timing is critical, I have done countless presentations on the subject and its a shame you couldn't attend but glad you would come to this one. That aside - blimey we are in total agreement!

Will keep you posted. But what do you think about also doing online version for those that do not want to come out or prefer a different style?

Offline komadori

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Re: Lamplighters: Mechanics Institute In Imminent Danger Of Collapse?
« Reply #114 on: September 20, 2010, 10:02:14 PM »
Taking this whole thread in context how about this: With the help of Geoff or whoever else on TS we organise and promote a live forum for an evening. I will be a guest contributor officially from the Trust and will happily answer whatever questions people have, explain our ideas and take on board any thoughts people have and report them back to the Board to inform our work. Essentially a public meeting online, perhaps there is some way of providing a set of slides and images to go alongside it which will help bring things to life and inform the discussion - I'm open to suggestions on this.

This approach would seem to me a much better use of time, effort and stimulating discussion in an organised fashion rather than going round in circles with none of us feeling like we are getting answers or getting the message across. This way we can dedicate a block of time and see what happens.
Can't see what's wrong with just answering questions on this forum as and when they are asked. Not everyone can dedicate the same block of time to an issue, so going for something 'organised' just cuts a lot of people out of the discussion.

I for one do not feel like I'm going round in circles, and the message I've got from NMIT is loud and clear, tho' certainly not the one they're aiming for. :)
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Offline Geoff Reid

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Re: Lamplighters: Mechanics Institute In Imminent Danger Of Collapse?
« Reply #115 on: September 20, 2010, 10:58:53 PM »
Ditto Komadori's comments.

Quill pen communications are all well and good in the long term but I fear a final solution to the Mechanics is, at most, months away.  If the NMIPT can't adapt quickly enough to make use of real-time 24/7/365 communications and formulate strategies accordingly it will be swept aside and left behind by events. 

Bluntly put, the digital conversation will occur with or without them, whether they agree and approve of it or not.

Officialdom will not slow down to suit interest groups, however well intentioned and knowledgeable they may be, and the general public will only engage in a manner and at a time that is convenient to them. If trusts like the NMIPT want the public to engage and support them the trust will have to learn to adapt to the 'availability' of the public, not vice versa.

It may be inconient to the committed activist, but I nevertheless believe it to be true.

Currently my curiosity is focussed on the political/business history surrounding the Mechanics. Until I understand that to my satisfaction I've no intention of nailing my colours to anyones mast. :)

Offline poemogram

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Re: Lamplighters: Mechanics Institute THE PUBLIC MEETING OCTOBER 2010
« Reply #116 on: September 21, 2010, 08:14:12 AM »
Room for all.

A place for all.

Quill and digital fora yes but the one, imo, the risky and scary one but necessary one as part of the journey is  :  a well-chaired public meeting.

Finding the experienced, skilled and respected, chair will be the key.

The Platform could be the place.

All protagonists should be invited and urged to attend - their attendance or nominee would speak volumes.

On the spot follow-up questions would be key.  Big namebadges for all and list of attendees available for perusal on the night (people to legibly sign in with "role" ie indiv or agency - so people can track people down for conversations.

Good sound system and seating.  Non-alch drinks beforehand and after.  Videoed of course and that vid put on web asap.

Topic :  "Actions to be taken on the Mechanics Issues by whom and by when"

Background accurate as possible (ie source referenced) info to be webbed prior to the event and available on the night to avoid too much who said or did what when.  Understanding the past is important but Moving from where we are (if we can agree where we are) is imo more important.

Format of meeting ...ummm thinking now maybe 6 clusters for one hour where protagonists give 4x15 min presentations of their positions, logging but not taking questions (no time)...then after a break a plenery session where questions are asked of nominated (by questioner) answerers.

The meeting would not of course be decision-making - simply and complicatedly information and viewpoint gathering and action forming for those collaborative or individual groups/individuals who wish to act.

Timescale :  4 weeks from now

This is my this morning's idea...others will amend and comment of course...maybe it will happen..I'd love to be there to see such a heady mix of community/political/business interests negotiating eyeball to eyeball.

No surprise to say I guess that the cards on my table hope for a restored Mechanics with a sizeable community use.

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Re: Lamplighters: Mechanics Institute In Imminent Danger Of Collapse?
« Reply #117 on: September 21, 2010, 08:58:57 AM »
When will the idiots from NMIPT get the message. The time for talking has long gone.
Their plans are totally meaningless.
1) They don't have the money
2) They don't own the building
3)The plans they have just don't make commercial sense - grants are a double edged sword. Most come with conditions. Look at steam, funded initially with lottery money, but it cost the council over a million to keep the place open in order to fulfil the conditions attached to the grant.

The Council can't afford to restore the building, therefore the only solution is to let a commercial developer try to make a go of it.

The building has been a blot on the landscape for years, and is not of the significance that some are trying to pretend. It was vastly altered in the 1930's. Buildings evolve over time, far better to let this one be developed in 21st century style than to try to recreate something from the past. Any form of public / trust ownership will inevitably become a millstone around the necks of local taxpayers.

The best thing the NMIPT can do fir all concerned is to disolve itself.

Offline Muggins

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Re: Lamplighters: Mechanics Institute In Imminent Danger Of Collapse?
« Reply #118 on: September 21, 2010, 09:27:15 AM »
"Officialdom will not slow down to suit interest groups, however well intentioned and knowledgeable they may be"

God!!  Geoff, you sound just like Rod Bluh!!!


"When will the idiots from NMIPT get the message."

ph1lc  - NMIPT are not idiots - far from it, some people should take a leaf out of their own book and get better informed.
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Offline Richard Symonds

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Re: Lamplighters: Mechanics Institute In Imminent Danger Of Collapse?
« Reply #119 on: September 21, 2010, 09:52:08 AM »
Some questions Daniel

Do you intend to get the Cameras to this meeting?

Which part of the historical Railway Press are you in regular contact with?  Martha was unaware of Steam Railway and its interest in the Mechanics'.  Do you issue regular press releases?

Are you in touch with the Programme Restorations in which you nearly featured?

You need to get the message out nationally and video the event so those who couldn't get there can get involved

This is what marketing and promoting the project is all about and the most important task for the Trust.

and finally

What arrangements have you made to fund raise from all your supporters because I know you are short of funding as we could not proceed with the Childrens Fete without a grant?

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