Topic: Sunday Satire #1: 'Going Bonkers in the Bunker'

[Geoff Reid]

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Don't view this is you are easily offended or are determined to be offended.

It contains some swearing. You have been warned 

A satirical swipe at the current plight of Swindon Councillors as they lurch from one vanity spending disaster to another.

This week: The bunker receives more bad news and complains about the Talkswindon forum and Lamplighters network

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/v/ge2EF3sWHTU?version=3&amp;amp;hl=en_GB" target="_blank" class="new_win">http://www.youtube.com/v/ge2EF3sWHTU?version=3&amp;amp;hl=en_GB</a>

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URL's now fixed

[Bobby Bingo]

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Geoff
What a grand way to start a Sunday morning.
The video created some real belly laughs.
Bobby

[Geoff Reid]

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The video created some real belly laughs.

...and a couple of complaints.

As the word 'Tory' can offend, I am trying to remove it from the title. The YT server doesn't seem to want to let go of it yet though.

[poemogram]

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The video is creative.

However, when taken in the context that Rod Bluh's family is of Jewish origins, I think this oversteps the mark and will detract from the issue : wi-fi accountability.

I request its removal pending re-consideration.

Tony Hillier

[poemogram]

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Paying tribute to Holocaust victims
9:59pm Tuesday 27th January 2009

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A MOVING tribute to those who died in the Holocaust has been held at Swindon’s war memorial.

Deputy mayor David Wren laid a wreath at the memorial as part of the national commemoration of Holocaust Memorial Day.

Organiser Matt Holland made a speech urging people to take lessons from the history of the Holocaust and eliminate hatred and intolerance from their lives.

Council leader Rod Bluh talked about his personal ties to the Holocaust.

His father was a survivor of a concentration camp but other members of the family lost their lives.

After the wreath-laying ceremony there was a gathering at the Friends Meeting House, in Eastcott Hill, where readings and speeches were given from councillors and representatives of multi-cultural groups.

Coun Wren said: “I was very moved to hear the leader’s speech.

“This is a day for reflection for all people in Swindon and nationally.

“It’s good to see so many people here and to see the respect people have for the occasion.

“It is important that we learn from the past but look to the future.”

Martin Vandervelde, the president of the Swindon Jewish Community, said: “This is something that should never be forgotten and should be marked every year in Swindon.”

Sarah Lodge, 19, from Abbey Meads, said: “I didn’t plan to come but I was walking past so I stopped to pay my respects.

“I thought it was very nice tribute.

“It’s a subject that is talked about a lot and it can be easy to become de-sensitised, but when you hear the personal stories you realise how terrible it really was.”

[Geoff Reid]

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As the word 'Tory' can offend, I am trying to remove it from the title. The YT server doesn't seem to want to let go of it yet though.

The video created some real belly laughs.

...and a couple of complaints.

...And now an irate Cabinet member who says in a voicemail message: "Rather amusing in a sick sort of way" but, when spoken to directly wasted no time informing me that Rod Bluh is Jewish and that I posted the video because of his ethnic background.  This is not correct, but it will suit some to assume the worst 

Hitlers behaviour in 'Downfall' fitted the satirical message perfectly.  A piece of satire which depends heavily on the use of foreign language and subtitles to work.

Yes it's provocative and I'm sure it would have been just as provocative if I'd used one of Elton Johns' rants.


Tony, please don't phone me at home again. Use email, there's a good chap.


I have no intention of removing this video until the Talkswindon membership has had a chance to watch and debate it.   I don't don't do knee-jerk and I don't respond well to threats.

The admin team may choose to discuss it amongst themselves, and if they decide to remove it I wouldn't be particularly happy about it, but neither would I interfere.

[Chris Watts]

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Was it not Prince Harry that turned up to a fancy dress party dressed as a Nazi? Like TS, Although obviously not a Nazi sympathiser or anti semitic, just a young man having fun, it was cause for a media sideshow and did offend where no offence was meant to the Jewish community.

[Peter Greenhalgh]

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Whilst I like many people can appreciate satire, I believe this video is pushing the boundaries of good taste. I just spoke to Geoff Reid about this, and whilst I said there are amusing bits in this video, I think it is distasteful.

For both personal and familial reasons I find the portrayal of a local politician as Hitler is beyond the pale. Whilst I appreciate Geoff may be concerned about the process around which the wi-fi decision has been made I do not believe it warrants such a deliberate attack. I understand no-one has been named in this video but the inference is more than clear. By all means criticise your local politicians but don't do this - I think there are better ways to attack councillors such as myself.

If such videos had been made whilst our two local MP's voted for the surveillance state we now find ourselves in, I could perhaps have understood the inference although I wouldn't support it. How do you think Ms Snelgrove would feel if this were about her ? Would she be as helpful if this were about her and her own party ? This attack, however, appears to be motivated by a personal objection to a project that might actually help the people of swindon.

If you are really committed to change, please stand for local election rather than doing this. I feel this is saying more about you than local politicians.

[Geoff Reid]

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The video is creative.

However, when taken in the context that Rod Bluh's family is of Jewish origins, I think this oversteps the mark and will detract from the issue : wi-fi accountability.

I request its removal pending re-consideration.

Tony Hillier

Request denied 

I didn't know Bluh's background before, knowing it now doesn't change my opinion of the video much, its satirical. 

Re: The holocaust memorial wotsit - shouldn't people be it offended that it appears to have been politicised? 

[Tea Boy]

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I do have to admit that i had thought of this scene with regard to Rod Bluhs insistance on carrying on regardless of the impending doom.

I was struck by how Rod was in full denial, just like Hitler is in this scene.

Its not about who it is, rather its more about  the utter arrogance in the face of overwhelming peer opinion, which quite frankly you can see in Rods attitude towards the public backlash on the wifi issue

I must say i had posted some thing similar in text form last week, thought about it and modified the post quickly, hoping nobody noticed!

To fall back to the Hitler and the persecution of the Jews, as an argument as to why we cannot draw metaphors is now becoming rapidly out dated. Perhaps the shock of seeing in this video some of the attitude he is displaying to the people of Swindon might make Rod think again about his stance on the issue of admitting tht there is public concern.

alternatively he could just hide behind the old Hitler v the Jews smokescreen

To look at the middle east for a minute, what happened to the jews in germany during WWII, does that give them the right to perpertrate untold human rights violations in the gaza strip etc.

Two wrongs do not make a right.

What happened to the Jews in Germany was wrong,  but I don't blame the modern  German nation for that, its a different country and generation, It was also 65 years ago.

I would not criticise anyone for making a direct comparison to the attitude shown in the video.  Especially seeing that in the context of the film (which i urge you to watch , in full) Hilter is refusing to see the end of the Reich, much as Rod is refusing to see the end of the Wifi scheme.

[poemogram]

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Prince Harry dressed as a Nazi soldier at a private party

This video shows a fictional representaion of Hitler. 

Clearly a difference.

Please re-consider.

I would ask all talkswindon viewers to share their views on this blog - it will help the admin team make its decision.

[Bobby Bingo]

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Oh Dear Oh Dear. The truth hurts. Bluh's dictatoral attitude to the vast majority of his fellow councillors has been hilighted yet again. Maybe in a way that does not suit some people but where were the outcries when the Tory posters showed "Devil Eyes Blair" and when Greenhach's mate Jeremy Clarkson called Gordon Brown a one eyed Scottish idiot?
I did not hear our self promoted "Poet Laureate" complain then.

[poemogram]

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I didn't know Bluh's background before, knowing it now doesn't change my opinion of the video much, its satirical.  writes Geoff

Of course it is satirical but that is not something to hide behind.

Being satirical does not always mean it must be acceptable to everybody.

I think on the grounds that you did not know Rod's background indicates that a withdrawal pending further consideration is warranted.

[AndyH]

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Geoff, I remember a mock up photo of someone else being removed from a TS photo humour thread by Dougal because it depicted them as Hitler and therefore could be offensive to Jewish survivors and their families.

Surely if the same standard was to be applied here the post should be removed.
 
Given the fact that Rod is not only of Jewish decent but has immediate family connections with what happened at the hands of Hitler and the Nazi’s, I think makes the post a more likely to make the debate more about whether the post is appropriate & in taste rather than the message you’re trying to get across.

The subtitles, whilst certainly creating the belly laughing you probably sought, are overshadowed by the Nazi imagery which quite rightly many still find offensive.

Personally I would ask for its removal under its current guise.

[Tig]

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Nicely put tea boy 

It is so sad to see that people who know Geoff have got him so wrong and someone who has never met him has got him so right.

It's sad that those who claim to know Geoff see this as a personal attack, they really don't know him.

A dark cloud looms as Tig questions "how well do friends know us"

[Ringer]

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This is a parody surely people can see that for themselves? The internet and youtube is littered with them the actors are acting out a scene, is one saying that actors dressing up are supporters of the murderous Nazi regime?  I have watched Monty Python's Minehead byelection  on You Tube posted below. Has anyone posted on here asking that it be commented on so that the admins can consider its appropriateness. Is the monty python team and BBC being asked to reconsider?

No where does it say in any way that it is a political statement about murderous nazi regimes. This is an actor not hitler and is a parody, if Youtube takes down every Hitler Parody then I think the Admins may at that point consider it . Please complain to youtube if you wish to as it is hosted there.

I am sure it will be copied and posted on there and other websites anonymously and then linked.

Deep Breath Grin and Bear it, but satire is satire, parody is parody and TS is TS, if it had been Stalin or Mao Tse Tung would the reaction from some have been different?

It is parody taken from Wiki:

A parody (pronounced /ˈpærədiː/; also called send-up or spoof), in contemporary usage, is a work created to mock, comment on, or poke fun at an original work, its subject, author, style, or some other target, by means of humorous, satiric or ironic imitation. As the literary theorist Linda Hutcheon (2000: 7) puts it, "parody … is imitation, not always at the expense of the parodied text." Another critic, Simon Dentith (2000: 9), defines parody as "any cultural practice which provides a relatively polemical allusive imitation of another cultural production or practice." Often, the most satisfying element of a good parody is seeing others mistake it for the genuine article.Parody may be found in art or culture, including literature, music (although "parody" in music has an earlier, somewhat different meaning than for other art forms), and cinema. Parodies are sometimes colloquially referred to as spoofs or lampoons.


Monty Python Minehead Byelection

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlmGknvr_Pg
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[poemogram]

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Oh Dear Oh Dear. The truth hurts. Bluh's dictatoral attitude to the vast majority of his fellow councillors has been hilighted yet again. Maybe in a way that does not suit some people but where were the outcries when the Tory posters showed "Devil Eyes Blair" and when Greenhach's mate Jeremy Clarkson called Gordon Brown a one eyed Scottish idiot?
I did not hear our self promoted "Poet Laureate" complain then.

I view the Devil Eyes as ...well devil'ish - and whilst perceptions of the devil in our society is an emotive issue I do not think it is in the same category as Hitler.

J Clarkson's  comment n my view was childish and will generally be taken as such.

ps  Thanks for promoting me to Swindon's Poet Laureate - when I only state that I am Swindon's Community Poet !
!http://www.geoffreid.com/talkswindon/Smileys/default/smiley.gif

[daproofreader]

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G'morning Geoff and the rest of the TS Crew.

              Watched your vid and can only say that I found it to be so very imaginatively put together and forgive the detractors and whining winnies. I'm certain that if they won millions on the lottery they'd complain that it contained  used notes !!
I spent over a third of my life so far in HM Forces, and during "trips" to such exotic locations as Northern Ireland and the South Atlantic, many Swindonuts and Chippenites would be aghast at the levels of black (is it ok to say that ?) humour that were in evidence at times of great personal stress and danger. Humour is a natural safety valve, especially useful when the brown stuff hits the extractor ( never happen in Swindon though..will it ?) and furthermore, it's only the possession of a well developed sense of humour that stops many folk from going crazy !
Having said that, I can only assume that there are quite a lot of humourless individuals presently sitting on Swindon Borough Council.

[Chris Watts]

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If you are really committed to change, please stand for local election rather than doing this. I feel this is saying more about you than local politicians.

Peter, being committed to change does not mean that I have to be a councillor. As a member of the public, I feel I should be able to question civic office decisions and have the forum to do this through public questions. This statement confirms to me the attitude of the current administration that unless you are in the club you do not have a say. The answers to my scrutiny questions are testament to this but at least unlike Geoff, I have had answers where as his questions have been ignored. Democracy in action or disenfranchisement of the general public?

[Geoff Reid]

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Of course it is satirical but that is not something to hide behind.

Being satirical does not always mean it must be acceptable to everybody.

I think on the grounds that you did not know Rod's background indicates that a withdrawal pending further consideration is warranted.

I'm not hiding behind anything. I don't have a moral or ethical problem with the video.  Tea Boy has summed up my intent perfectly.

I didn't expect it to be acceptable to everyone. Satire rarely is.

"I think on the grounds that you did not know Rod's background indicates that a withdrawal pending further consideration is warranted"

I disagree. I don't subscribe to Basil Fawlty's "Don't mention the War" mentality, particularly so as it wasn't relevant when I was doing the video and is only relevant now because the subject of Rod Bluh being Jewish is being so heavily promoted.