Author Topic: Independent Candidates?  (Read 13891 times)

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Offline Muggins

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Re: Independent Candidates?
« Reply #40 on: March 12, 2010, 02:47:19 PM »
I'll have a go...............I have heard from Pinehurst peeps that the rates are too expensive.  From a Penhill perspective, why would we want to use their facilities?   They are out of the way, not enough parking so I understand, not on a bus route!!!
We have good community facilites here, they need the OUR community to use it to exist.   If the community facilities here fail, we would have no way of 'engaging' people in long term stuff.  We have an excellent Learning Centre and Library right here - if we all go off down to the Academy we might - no will - lose that. 

The building-in of community facilties to the Academy was proudly hailed by those trying to sell us the idea and I think I remember the word 'free' being in the same sentence.  :2funny:  Apart from a sedate committee meeting or two, anything else within an educational establishment doesn't fit.  When discussing this at a meeting, at which an academy rep was present, I asked how would they feel about say a wedding reception or a birthday party with alcohol.  You can image how that went down.

So to anyone who thinks that community accomodation inside a school is the way forward - forget it.   Community is about the wedding reception, birthday party, funeral wake, jumble sale etc. 

The Schools are NOT the hearts of communties, (and the Academy is certainly not at the heart of ours) they are the educators of our children. I suggest that they get on with that - let's face it they could do with doing it better  - and leave the rest of us to our community centres and church halls. 
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline Bobby Bingo

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Re: Independent Candidates?
« Reply #41 on: March 12, 2010, 03:27:00 PM »
Thanks Muggins. You must be the font of all knowledge. Your reply was very much appreciated.
Bobby

Offline Muggins

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Re: Independent Candidates?
« Reply #42 on: March 12, 2010, 04:57:09 PM »
Trouble is Bobby, they never ask questions like this at Quiz night's............ not every one's specialist subject is constitutions!

AndyH   might well back me up - or not. 

To be honest I think that by putting in a couple of spare rooms for 'community facilities'
into the Academy, they thought that Pinehurst would meekly accept that and not want a new community centre to replace their People's Centre................but they did.  After all, they had been promised one to get them to accept the academy development in their community in the first place.   
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline Chav

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Re: Independent Candidates?
« Reply #43 on: March 12, 2010, 07:32:20 PM »
S.W. states "I know you are a hard working community centric bloke" about Andy H. so perhaps he could look into the costs of hiring facilities from the Academy. I was told they are ridiculously high.
Would anyone from Penhill or Pinehurst like to comment.

From a Penhill residents point of view (coz I am one)
I would not use any of the community facilities that the Academy had to off, as we have some wonderful community facilities on Penhill !
Why travel when its on your door step, and for those without transport, well there is no bus service from Penhill to the Academy anyway.

From an ex- Pinehurst resident point of view (I grew up there & and my parents still live there) - I would say that community facilities within the Academy are not the same as a purpose built community centre and would not have the same atmosphere to it.
"Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects." -- Lester B. Pearson.

Offline moley

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Re: Independent Candidates?
« Reply #44 on: March 12, 2010, 09:19:08 PM »

From a Penhill residents point of view (coz I am one)
I would not use any of the community facilities that the Academy had to off, as we have some wonderful community facilities on Penhill !
Why travel when its on your door step, and for those without transport, well there is no bus service from Penhill to the Academy anyway.

From an ex- Pinehurst resident point of view (I grew up there & and my parents still live there) - I would say that community facilities within the Academy are not the same as a purpose built community centre and would not have the same atmosphere to it.

At the end of the day, I've been to a reasonable number of schools for a variety of reasons (including meetings in community rooms etc.) and err... a school feels like a school, and the community rooms in a school feel like rooms in a school no matter how nice they are.

It just feels to me that this is a planning idea that seems much better in theory than reality (although one possible good use for the rooms in primary schools is to run nurseries as the rooms do seem perfect for that..)

I can't imagine anywhere I'd less want to go to a wedding reception than the community room at *any* school (and I've been to one wedding held in an educational establishment and that just felt very wierd).

Moley

Offline Muggins

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Re: Independent Candidates?
« Reply #45 on: March 13, 2010, 09:14:46 AM »
Moley,   any new school - especially the Academy, which is a 0-19 yrs school,  should be designed with purpose 'built' nurseries already in them.   

Schools always smell of that awful polish anyway.

To be inclusive, we were always led to believe that there should be a variety of community places to encourage best engagement. Some people would be really uncomfortable going 'back to school' some people would never enter a church, some would never want to go in the local pub. The community centre was always seen as the best there is as common ground.   
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline Geoff Reid

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Re: Independent Candidates?
« Reply #46 on: March 13, 2010, 09:47:34 AM »
 
Quote
The Schools are NOT the hearts of communties, (and the Academy is certainly not at the heart of ours) they are the educators of our children. I suggest that they get on with that - let's face it they could do with doing it better  - and leave the rest of us to our community centres and church halls.

Amen to that.  :)

AndyH

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Re: Independent Candidates?
« Reply #47 on: March 14, 2010, 04:08:16 PM »
The building-in of community facilties to the Academy was proudly hailed by those trying to sell us the idea and I think I remember the word 'free' being in the same sentence.  When discussing this at a meeting, at which an academy rep was present, I asked how would they feel about say a wedding reception or a birthday party with alcohol.  You can image how that went down.

The Schools are NOT the hearts of communties, (and the Academy is certainly not at the heart of ours) they are the educators of our children. I suggest that they get on with that - let's face it they could do with doing it better  - and leave the rest of us to our community centres and church halls. 

Muggins is quite right and it was an argument that fell on the deaf ears of the Tory & Labour Supremeo’s that forced through the Academy.

There’s been a lot of posts on TS recently about Wiffy WiFi and the lack of consultation. Just think of that when you think of the Academy and the pretend consultation that took place over that. Consultation papers, which contained the dates of the consultation meetings, went missing. After protests from activists, including myself, they were reissued AFTER the consultation dates and although we again protested that residents didn’t therefore get a proper chance to be consulted, the council refused to hold further dates. Part of their argument was that the dates were published in the Adver (like everyone reads the Adver). Not surprisingly  many of the objections raised got lost in the system or were just ignored.

For those of us who did know the dates, we raised loads of points throughout the arguments against the Academy and against it being built on the Pinehurst site, but were again totally ignored.

Penhill is clearly not getting a fair share with the bus service. We were promised a decent bus service to the academy not only for the pupils but also for the extended community facilities that were being promised for the residents of Penhill and Pinehurst. Another broken promise from politicians that don’t care.

Offline Karsten

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Re: Independent Candidates?
« Reply #48 on: April 24, 2010, 04:35:07 PM »
A lot of people talk about the desirability of people standing as independent candidates in the local elections.  We usually see at least one in each set of elections and they never do especially well.  I don't think Swindon has elected an independent for 10 years, although I may be wrong.

So that leaves us with some questions:
1) Do people feel independent candidates are inherently better? And if so, why?
2) Why do the electors not agree?


1) Yes, because they are not shackled to the policies of a party. Party candidates will always, from time-to-time, put party loyalty above the needs of their local electorate.
2) I'm not sure that electors don't agree. A disadvantage for independents is that they have no party machinery to support them during an election campaign. Also, although independents are inherently better, it's also the case that a fair few independent candidates are closer to 'nutter' than to 'serious candidate'.


Kanadori

Without trying to sound like I am trying to just support Dave, there a few other reasons.

1) I’ve always found that people vote for two main reasons.
1st is the candidate. Regardless of party, a candidate will gain votes if they have a good reputation, this is of course the personal vote and one such instance of this locally is the recently de-selected Maurice Fanning. Look back at the voting trend for GH&P and you will see that he always pulled in more votes than other Labour candidates. In the case of Graham Cherry in Parks, clearly the “local candidate” also became a vote winner.
2nd is the party. Yes people know that most candidates will usually have to follow a party line at some point, even if it does not fit in with what a ward wants. However as I have said in previous posts, the Lib Dem philosophy of “localism” is a winner in this aspect and people are starting to prefer their Councillors & MP’s to be able to think a bit more independently. That’s why I’m a Lib Dem, because Lib Dem’s are a broad-spectrum party who don’t frown on independent thinking.

2) Believe me, as someone who has been an independent, it’s not just about a party machinery at election time. Just remember there are at least four years of trying to keep up-to-date with ever-changing information. As an independent you are not always in the “loop”, mainly because the powers that be cut you out and partly because trying to read and digest all this information becomes a full time job in itself (So if you work full time it becomes even harder). Being part of a party is also being part of a “team”. As a team you can be more informed by sharing areas of special responsibility. No Councillor or MP can be an expert in every field and that’s why a team is more effective.

I think your rationale that independents are inherently better, also hides another significant factor though. I think it is very rare for an independent not to also be LOCAL. I remember Sid and whilst he was a good councillor, his remit was local and centred on Chisledon on town council issues (Before the ward was became Wroughton & Chisledon in a Unitary Authority).




Hi
You may remember me from previous local elections standing for
the Swindon Org UK party, the Green party and now as an Independent.  ;D

I think you left out one option.. the Protest Vote..
This year electors have one more option..

I am standing as Independent both in Central and in South Swindon.  As a Protest Vote... no confidence in bollockticians of the colourful politcial parties.


My Website is http://Www.Swindon.Org.UK

I agree with you on the diferculty of getting my protest message out.. but hey? Isn't this the 'Digital City!' 
ok maybe not but there are plenty of Silver Surfers and Facebook addicts out there..
I'm a Jedi.. :fence: and that was because of one email.. there's over 500,000 Jedis in the UK..
Surely we can muster a few thousand voting protestors..

I am putting my own money up for the deposit and don't have the resources of Lab., Cons., Lib Dem.. mainly to get free posting of leaflets.

If anyone agrees and would like to help me shake up this election, I would be grateful of any help posting online.
I have two window poster images and you could download and print them to stick in top center your road facing windows.
You could forward and post my Website to online forums, lists or simply talk to people and see if people do want to show
the House of Commons what a load of bollocks they talk.

This is probalby unlikely but if I did get elected in South Swindon...I'd love to be able to ask Mr Speaker to address the house and tell the right dis-honourable lot that they talk load of bollocks.


Promises, Promises..but no action.

If I did get elected:
http://www.swindon.org.uk/election/elected.txt

Here are the window poster images:
http://www.swindon.org.uk/election/nevermindthebollocks.jpg
http://www.swindon.org.uk/election/protestvote.gif
Election Leaflet:
http://www.swindon.org.uk/election/504~001~S1~South%20Swindon~Independent~Karsten%20Evans.pdf

There isn't a photo of me on the leaflet as its a protest vote, not for me per se.

If you do want one here's one I had to do for the Pradvatiser.. hope they left the protest vote sign in, doubt they will tho'
http://www.swindon.org.uk/election/KarstenEvansProtestVote2.JPG

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

Regards,
Karsten Evans
mailto:karsten@swindon.org.uk?Subject=election
http://www.swindon.org.uk/election/Index.htm




Offline Pig Hill Resident

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Re: Independent Candidates?
« Reply #49 on: April 24, 2010, 06:55:13 PM »
Hi Karsten.

Whilst it's good to see you using Talk Swindon to get your message out to the electorate, we'd be grateful if you could refrain from posting the same thing on multiple boards. Many members use the Recent Posts view to catch up on the latest on Talk Swindon, and they don't want to see essentially the same post over and over again.

We've left your posts up on the General Election 2010 board, the protest vote thread and the independant candidates thread. The others have been moved out of sight to preserve the user experience for members using the Recent Posts view.

Offline Des Morgan

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Re: Independent Candidates?
« Reply #50 on: April 24, 2010, 07:05:04 PM »
I am standing as Independent both in Central and in South Swindon.  As a Protest Vote... no confidence in bollockticians of the colourful politcial parties.

It's an interesting concept - standing in two wards and presents voters with a conudnrum.  Do I want to vote for a person who is using me 'to make a statement' or do i vote for someone who is going to represent me?  I suggest the non aligned and effectively wasted 'protest vote' is a utopian concept dreamt up by politicians and not something which is particularly attractive to the voters. Surely it is just vanity to ask the electorate to exercise their hard won right to vote on what effectively is all flim flam with no substance?