Author Topic: Lamplighters Bulletin #8: Lamp posts and Lampoonery  (Read 20395 times)

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Offline Chav

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Re: Lamplighters Bulletin #8: Lamp posts and Lampoonery
« Reply #20 on: February 21, 2010, 09:57:10 PM »
Andy , I see you are logged in  :angel:

Come on give an answer , you know you want to  ;)

Just say it as it is innit !


Hello........... hello........ is there any body there !  :o

Andy, are you there !

You haven't crossed over to the other side already have you !

We will have to get Dave Wood to conduct a seance ................. helllloooo !
"Politics is the skilled use of blunt objects." -- Lester B. Pearson.

AndyH

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Re: Lamplighters Bulletin #8: Lamp posts and Lampoonery
« Reply #21 on: February 21, 2010, 10:28:13 PM »
Andy , I see you are logged in  :angel:
Come on give an answer , you know you want to  ;)
Just say it as it is innit !
Hello........... hello........ is there any body there !  :o
Andy, are you there !
You haven't crossed over to the other side already have you !

We will have to get Dave Wood to conduct a seance ................. helllloooo !

Chav you’re a cheeky bugger…. Even Dave Wood couldn’t contact me if I was asleep lol

Sorry but I’ve been rather busy out on the streets this weekend with the 21 bus petition. The names etc have to be typed into a complete list, which is a lot of data entry. We’ve had a great response but I’ve taken a break to response to this thread.

Rumour control - or lack of

A couple of years back, Councillor Andy Harrison, (Labour- Penhill Ward), resigned the Labour whip, (left the party), and went independent.   Almost immediately a rumour propagated from within the Tory group that Andy would cross the floor to them.  Some time passed and Andy did not, as predicted by the Tory rumour machine, cross the floor to them, neither did he stand at the next election.

From time to time variations on the original rumour would surface again, a particularly virulent one being that Andy would stand as a Tory in Penhill this year. (Even I started to think this evolution was credible).

Then, a short time ago, Andy announced that he would be standing in Penhill this year, but as a Liberal Democrat.  This should have been the end of the rumour really, but yet another evolution of the same rumour has started doing the rounds.  This time, the rumour says, Andy will stand as a Liberal Democrat and then, if he wins, will cross the floor to the Tory group.   The rumour also alleges that Andy, for crossing the floor, has been promised the deputy Mayorship in 2011.

Is this true ?

Why would Penhills Andy Harrison stand as a candidate for the Liberal Democrats and then cross the floor to the Tory Group if he wins ?

It makes very little sense - as surely he would have stood as a Tory Candidate in the first place would he not ?

Unless the promise of Deputy Mayorship is what he wants in this !
could it be a case of 'Quid Pro Quo'

If so, what ever happened to the word 'loyalty' in all this  :-\

I am sure that Andy Harrison will shed some light on this  as it would be in his best interest would it not as the case may or may not be  :o


I would think - knowing Andy as I do, that if he has any political ambitions and wants (as he says he does) to serve his community - Penhill - then to cross the floor to the Tories would be political suicide, because he wouldn't get voted in again at least not up here.

However I can see why a councillor might, as at present the Tories ruling body they have all the power and a good questions might be to ask what's the best way to get stuff for your area?  Be in with the big gang?

However moving from party to party doesn't add to your credibility.  Moving after an election shows something wobbly about your honesty.

I think Geoff is right when he say’s
Quote
probably just the usual pre-election bollocks designed to bugger up the opposition.

As for being Deputy Mayor that’s not something that I believe should be in the hands of the political parties as in the last few years I was on the council the appointment became very political. (Maybe we should see a side ballot at local elections, without any campaigning allowed, which could give people a choice from those duly qualified and nominated and then they would really be the people choice for 1st Citizen for the ensuing year.) So NO it’s not true RG.

But for any in political doubt just have a look at my track record.

I was elected to the council in 2003 and my number one commitment was to “work with residents and community groups to facilitate positive change”. In fact I have always been very clear where I stand, People before politics.

I had been unhappy at the way Labour had constantly failed to support the residents of Penhill ward and the leadership of the Labour Group. There were certain aspects of national policy that I felt I couldn’t support, but as a trade unionist (not a lefty by any means) felt that I should try to change the party from within. The final straw for me was when the group voted NOT to make an issue of massively increased councillors allowances at a time when the council was cutting services and making people redundant. The groups’ leadership clearly wanted to keep their backsides warm with taxpayers dosh. I therefore resigned the groups, and to prevent party expulsion, also resigned the party. (Labour rule expels for 5 years any councillor who is not a member of a Labour group.) Had I kept my mouth shut on this issue, as a hard working councillor (this has never been disputed by any of the parties) I would have had little difficulty in being re-selected and probably re-elected. I chose principle before personal gain and I would again.

I said I would continue to serve the people of Penhill ward as an independent and true to my word I did (Unlike some who went independent only to later cross to another party). I could have easily fully crossed the floor to another party and would have been financially and politically better off at the time.

A lot of people asked me to stand again at the end of my term in 2007 and looking back I wish I had. However few people outside politics fully understand the hard work and human resources needed to run an election campaign in local elections. I therefore decided for the time being to stand down and take stock. Seeing the cuts in local services, to libraries and community grants, the failure of local councillors to protect our valued green space and fail to get Penhill ward residents their fair share of what’s being dished out to other areas spurred me to again get into the saddle and try to be a good community champion. (Sorry if that sounds too political for some)

Some might well ask why I joined the Lib Dems, a party I had previously been an active member of during the 1980’s. Labour decided to once again take the residents for granted by deciding that the ward was a safe Labour seat and therefore to restrict the selection of candidates to women only. (Not necessarily a bad thing if you want to increase the number of women on the council but with a panel of only three candidates somewhat suspect as whom would be selected)  Having looked at the parties, and what they believed in, especially locally, I found I believed in what they stood for in the local community. After a good chat with Stan Pajak, a fellow trade unionist and UNITE shop steward, I felt there was no contradiction with my union beliefs and what’s more, whilst they do have very good policies these are principled by the precept that no one policy will suit every situation, different opinions and debate are welcomed not crushed. A far cry from Labour where I was vilified for opposing the Swindon Academy let alone other decisions based on national party policy.

Muggins knows me well so enough said already, but she makes a valid point with the
Quote
what's the best way to get stuff for your area?  Be in with the big gang?

Personally I believe that if you want stuff for your area then you fight for it.  :knuppel2:
You attend the meetings you need to, you hound the hell out of those who can give it to you with the sound arguments and justification on why you should get it and you keep winning the moral battle until you win the war. You DO NOT sit back and just accept that the powers that be won’t give you it,
You DO NOT do deals that sells your principles and your soul for the rewards of mammon,
And first and foremost you always remember you are elected “to Serve not be served”.

Even without Dave Glaholm I'm sure there will be plenty of mud for them to fling at each other and I'm really looking forward to Lorna Breslin's pre-election 'Penhill Question Time'  :)

I sincerely hope Labour do not fall into their normal tactic of mud slinging through a lack of ability to account for themselves or what they will do better.

I am also looking forward to the “Penhill Question Time”. It’s a fantastic opportunity for local residents to see and challenge those who seek to represent them without the candidates’ ability to “spin” answer any questions that may be fielded. I do hope that this will be a well-attended meeting, the Lib Dems are certainly supportive of it. Lets also hope that it is run in true “Question Time” tradition and candidates face the questions cold. I also understand that it will ONLY be open to Penhill ward residents (can you confirm this Lorna) which will really make it about local issues, something that may well get forgotten in the furore of a joint general/local elections (Yes I’m still convinced it will be a double). Hopefully being residents only will also stop other parties (Strongly rumoured the BNP will be standing  :puke:) from the meeting with political spin.

Interestingly following Lorna’s initial email to prospective candidates I received a phone call from one of the group leaders asking what “I” was trying to pull up in Penhill. Quite wrongly they assumed I was organising it and stated that their candidate was being told to concentrate on being on the street and would not be allowed to attend. I find this disappointing if not disrespectful of the residents of Penhill ward who have a right to challenge both prospective and elected councillors. I do hope their candidate defies this and attends.

Offline Trollee

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Re: Lamplighters Bulletin #8: Lamp posts and Lampoonery
« Reply #22 on: February 21, 2010, 10:48:37 PM »
interesting post Andy but you have neither confirmed or denied that you have been offered the Deputy mayors job in 2011, so have you

AndyH

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Re: Lamplighters Bulletin #8: Lamp posts and Lampoonery
« Reply #23 on: February 21, 2010, 10:53:27 PM »
NO I  haven't, sorry I thought I had made that clear, I DON'T do these sort of deals

as Geoff says' its all "pre-election bollocks designed to bugger up the opposition."

Offline Trollee

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Re: Lamplighters Bulletin #8: Lamp posts and Lampoonery
« Reply #24 on: February 21, 2010, 10:56:44 PM »
clever answer Andy so you will definately not be joining the Torries now then?

AndyH

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Re: Lamplighters Bulletin #8: Lamp posts and Lampoonery
« Reply #25 on: February 21, 2010, 11:17:06 PM »
clever answer Andy so you will definately not be joining the Torries now then?


I will definately not be joining the Torries, didn't mean to sound clever just honest

Offline Geoff Reid

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Re: Lamplighters Bulletin #8: Lamp posts and Lampoonery
« Reply #26 on: February 22, 2010, 01:23:41 AM »
 
Life expectancy of cats in Stoke Gifford is unusually short, I believe.



Hahahahahahaaaaaaa !..... took me a long time to get this, but I got there in the end  ;D

Offline Ringer

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Re: Lamplighters Bulletin #8: Lamp posts and Lampoonery
« Reply #27 on: February 22, 2010, 08:49:09 AM »

I will definately not be joining the Torries, didn't mean to sound clever just honest

There is no Torries party it is Conservative so as a play on words can be a refuge for ploticians politicians; maybe semantics are relevant to some people in your answers?
To qualify for inclusion there is only one rule - something described must have been said to have happened. `If the facts don`t fit the legend, print

AndyH

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Re: Lamplighters Bulletin #8: Lamp posts and Lampoonery
« Reply #28 on: February 22, 2010, 09:20:33 AM »
interesting post Andy but you have neither confirmed or denied that you have been offered the Deputy mayors job in 2011, so have you
Quote
NO I  haven't, sorry I thought I had made that clear, I DON'T do these sort of deals
as Geoff says' its all "pre-election bollocks designed to bugger up the opposition."
Quote
I will definately not be joining the Torries, didn't mean to sound clever just honest
Quote
There is no Torries party it is Conservative so as a play on words can be a refuge for ploticians politicians; maybe semantics are relevant to some people in your answers?

No play on words intended, just tired eyes from too much time spent on the computer and a lazy copy/pasting of Trollee’s post.

So without any play on words

NO I  haven't, been offered the deputy mayors job in 2011 and I have no plans to join the Conservatives.

I tell it straight and if other people want to twist words and play the semantics game then I just let them get on with it. If you read the post I was very clear about where I stood on doing deals.
Quote
You DO NOT do deals that sells your principles and your soul for the rewards of mammon
Quote
Hope that is clear enough.

Offline Richard Shaw

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Re: Lamplighters Bulletin #8: Lamp posts and Lampoonery
« Reply #29 on: February 22, 2010, 09:52:39 AM »
Things have really got interesting since I have been away, mustn't leave it so long next time.

Anyway Andy could you  please answer a new couple of questions for me?

1.  Over the last two years have you had any discussions about joining the Conservatives?

2.  Over the last two years have you had any discussions re your becoming Mayor?

Andy, it would have been easier for you to have said a simple 'no' in the first place.

AndyH

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Re: Lamplighters Bulletin #8: Lamp posts and Lampoonery
« Reply #30 on: February 22, 2010, 11:35:19 AM »
Things have really got interesting since I have been away, mustn't leave it so long next time.
Anyway Andy could you  please answer a new couple of questions for me?
1.  Over the last two years have you had any discussions about joining the Conservatives?
2.  Over the last two years have you had any discussions re your becoming Mayor?
Andy, it would have been easier for you to have said a simple 'no' in the first place.

Richard I thought my answer had be simple without being curt.

OK to answer your questions.

1. I have had several conservative members over the last couple of years try to entice me to join them. At heart I am trade unionist and felt I couldn’t betray my principles in that direction.
Back in 2008 I did speak with JT about the conservatives, policies and what they did locally etc. I still had the desire to be involved locally and want to see my area getting a better deal. As you know with Cameron they were promoting themselves more as a workers party. After reflecting I decided the conservatives were not for me. Basically I wouldn’t be comfortable with the overall ethos of the party, which like Labour and unlike the Lib Dems, puts party policy before the local needs.

2. No

Clearly this is, as Geoff so aptly puts it is "pre-election bollocks designed to bugger up the opposition."

On Hearing I was standing for the Liberal Democrats Monty phoned me and tried to deter me from being the Lib Dem candidate, he wanted to “talk about it” My reply was simple, what is there to talk about? Labour has let local residents down, they take the voters for granted and they don’t work for the people of Penhill Ward. Labour immediately rushed out a leaflet, the first local leaflet in years, which was clearly a cry of desperation to despondent Labour voters full of the perils of what may come rather than promoting what Labour are doing for residents.
I know they’ve been about a bit, even holding a street stall before Christmas at the local shops. Though it didn’t go unnoticed that our local councillor couldn’t be bothered to cross the road into the JMH, where CliP where holding their Xmas Bazaar at the same time, just to say hello and wish the residents & the CliP workers and volunteers, well.

In contrast we’ve managed to knock on the doors of almost 80% of residents and in the next week or so that will be over 90% (there are a lot of entry system flats which are not accessible) We’re getting a great response from residents because we are asking, not assuming, what their priorities are.

On reflection I should be honoured that someone thinks I’m such a threat to Labour that they need to start rumours about immanent post election defections and backroom shady deals. To be honest it detracts from the thing that matters most to me and that’s getting a fair share for Penhill ward residents.

Offline Geoff Reid

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Re: Lamplighters Bulletin #8: Lamp posts and Lampoonery
« Reply #31 on: February 22, 2010, 11:43:57 AM »
On reflection I should be honoured that someone thinks I’m such a threat to Labour that they need to start rumours about immanent post election defections and backroom shady deals.


It's also possible the rumours are being nurtured lovingly by Rods charm police because you haven't bent to his will.

If you're elected in May and decide to criticise him publicly, (assuming he is re-elected in DOrcan of course), you'll be invited to his office you know....   :bottom:


  In the meantime, watch out for yourself around Penhill at night, lest Rods Charm Police catch up with you and CP2 you  ;D

AndyH

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Re: Lamplighters Bulletin #8: Lamp posts and Lampoonery
« Reply #32 on: February 22, 2010, 12:00:20 PM »
Wouldn’t be the first time I was outside the headmasters door…..  :bottom:

At the last Penhill Forum Bob from the Orchard pointed out that there was a glut of willow waiting for the play rangers to build dens for the kids.

I advised Bob to keep it in stock because if the old Eatonians get in, they’ll probably have use for it. Maybe I should advise him to send some to Rod’s office….   :bottom:

Offline Tobes

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Re: Lamplighters Bulletin #8: Lamp posts and Lampoonery
« Reply #33 on: February 22, 2010, 01:32:34 PM »
Canes or wicker men? They seem like they might have a penchant for either...
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - [attributed to] Voltaire... 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita' - William of Occam.... 'You have a right to feel offended, but just cos you are offended doesn't mean you are right'

Offline Muggins

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Re: Lamplighters Bulletin #8: Lamp posts and Lampoonery
« Reply #34 on: February 22, 2010, 02:07:36 PM »
Perhaps there might be a use for that willow - I can always weave it into wreaths.  How many do you think we would need?
Oi! Listen mush. Old eyes, remember? I’ve been around the block a few times. More than a few. They’ve knocked down the blocks I’ve been around and rebuilt them as bigger blocks. Super blocks. And I’ve been round them as well.  The Doctor (Night Terrors)

Offline Claire Ellis

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Re: Lamplighters Bulletin #8: Lamp posts and Lampoonery
« Reply #35 on: February 22, 2010, 07:30:24 PM »
Quote
It makes very little sense - as surely he would have stood as a Tory Candidate in the first place would he not ?

You'd think so, but there are previous examples and the Conservative group already has a small contingent of floor crossers, a couple of which were given important roles:


David Wren - crossed from labour and became a cabinet member - Now the Mayor

Sinead Darker - Crossed from Labour and given safe ward before subsequent re-election - Now Lady Mayoress

Michael Dickinson - crossed from the Lib Dems - Now chair of the Internal Audit Committee

Peter Mallinson - crossed from Tories to Labour and crossed again to Tories - Now the whip (party bully-boy)

Mavis Childs - Crossed from Labour

David Glaholm - left labour, given chair of Scrutiny in reward but cocked up, (no pun intended),  before he could complete his crossing to the Tories


Who have I forgotten?  tell me: leaks@talkswindon.org

Peter crossed once, he was originally a Labour Cllr.

Offline Geoff Reid

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Re: Lamplighters Bulletin #8: Lamp posts and Lampoonery
« Reply #36 on: March 04, 2010, 02:27:17 PM »

Peter crossed once, he was originally a Labour Cllr.

My memory, usually very good on such points, thinks differently. You may want to ask him  :)

I'm sure Peter himself told me that he'd been Tory, then Labour, then Tory. 

Turncoat Mallinson' he was calling himself in those days......

AndyH

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Re: Lamplighters Bulletin #8: Lamp posts and Lampoonery
« Reply #37 on: March 04, 2010, 03:07:35 PM »

Peter crossed once, he was originally a Labour Cllr.

My memory, usually very good on such points, thinks differently. You may want to ask him  :)

I'm sure Peter himself told me that he'd been Tory, then Labour, then Tory. 

Turncoat Mallinson' he was calling himself in those days......

I think he was a Tory on another council, but happy to be corrected

Offline Bobby Bingo

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Re: Lamplighters Bulletin #8: Lamp posts and Lampoonery
« Reply #38 on: March 04, 2010, 03:54:50 PM »
Andy
If you get elected what ever you do please don't cross the floor.
The carpet is already threadbare from Wren, Darker, Childs, Mallison, Dickenson and Glaholm mass migration.
Bobby

AndyH

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Re: Lamplighters Bulletin #8: Lamp posts and Lampoonery
« Reply #39 on: March 04, 2010, 04:02:49 PM »
Bobby,
IF I get elected I won’t. I never intended having to resign the group in 2003 but I felt I was left with little option at the time. However I cannot foresee that happening again given that the Lib Dems are less totalitarian and greedy than the other lot.    :)