Author Topic: WiFi Reference Documents & Sources Thread  (Read 8258 times)

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Offline boothill

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Re: WiFi Reference Documents & Sources Thread
« Reply #20 on: August 01, 2011, 08:52:12 AM »
Muggins - It was made clear to me that the Administration is seeking to gain £400,000 from the investors instead of recovering the debt from the borrower.


But could you please tell me   just who ARE the investors ....the taxpayers perhaps ??

Frankly, as someone who once lived 34 miles NW of the Home of Corruption, and witnessed first hand it's being dealt with in a very robust fashion, I still find it beyond belief that this whole, doomed from the start, silliness is dragging on and on and on, with NO apparent end to the fiasco in sight.
Do the main players in this whole smelly business believe, for one millisecond, that the Swindon public (those who give a rat's ar*e anyway) actually give credibilty to their lame and totally fictitious delaying tactics, which are in MY opinion downright lies !

I did pose several pertinent questions in my last post, but apart from criticism concerning my use of acronyms, NO answers were forthcoming, begging the question...is a member's use of the English language , punctuation or acronymal usage more important to many members of this erstwhile forum than the actual business in hand ?

Could this be because No-One has any answers ?
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Offline Richard Symonds

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Re: WiFi Reference Documents & Sources Thread
« Reply #21 on: August 01, 2011, 09:58:09 PM »
Muggins - It was made clear to me that the Administration is seeking to gain £400,000 from the investors instead of recovering the debt from the borrower.

In reality, Bob, do you or have you ever thought this was achievable?
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Offline Steve Wakefield

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Re: WiFi Reference Documents & Sources Thread
« Reply #22 on: August 01, 2011, 10:01:55 PM »
Obvious question Richard, but who do you think the borrower is and who does the debt actually belong too?
All posts on this forum are my own opinion and do not represent the views of any council or any political party.  :banana:

Offline Richard Symonds

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Re: WiFi Reference Documents & Sources Thread
« Reply #23 on: August 01, 2011, 10:21:24 PM »
Cabinet Briefing Note dated October 12th 2009 makes very interesting reading:-

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/76602/response/197864/attach/2/Briefing%20Note.pdf

Which two Cabinet Members signed this off at the bottom?  I do not recognise the signatures!

I find Mr Perrin's FOI request and the Council's reply, left until the eleventh hour particularly interesting

http://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/wifi#incoming-197864

The answer stating that the non disclosure agreement was still in force!  How why and when was this agreed, from my personal knowledge of Scrutiny this is long out of date, that is unless it was extended at a meeting at which I did not attend.  Any Comments please?

And if the protagonists had just admitted they got it wrong in trusting Rikki Hunt and told us they were talking to other providers they would not still be discussing this subject.

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Offline Des Morgan

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Re: WiFi Reference Documents & Sources Thread
« Reply #24 on: August 01, 2011, 10:44:07 PM »
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the non disclosure agreement was still in force

Possibly quite true - it might well be.  The issue isn't so much 'disclosure' as 'exclusivity' which was the basis of the original agreement.  The alleged interested party did not want SBC or DC talking to any other parties while due diligence was conducted, hence a 60 day period of 'exclusivity' - that period has long expired, which begs the question has SBC spoken to anyone else?  After all according to the Internal Audit report, which no Cabinet member ever said was wrong, quite clearly stated that there were other interested parties at the outset who wanted to invest.

If the concept is as wonderful as Garry Perkins makes out, where are the investors now?

The 'non-disclosure' clause allows any interested investor who thinks differently once they consider all the facts; to withdraw without anyone ever knowing who they were.  Of course it also allows the Council to claim they had  an interested party when in fact none ever existed - but I am sure no one at SBC would try to pull a trick like that - would they?



Ringer

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Re: WiFi Reference Documents & Sources Thread
« Reply #25 on: August 01, 2011, 10:50:30 PM »
Des

Can you explain who actually owe the money, who exactly is in debt?

Offline Richard Symonds

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Re: WiFi Reference Documents & Sources Thread
« Reply #26 on: August 02, 2011, 09:22:07 AM »
If the concept is as wonderful as Garry Perkins makes out, where are the investors now?

The 'non-disclosure' clause allows any interested investor who thinks differently once they consider all the facts; to withdraw without anyone ever knowing who they were.  Of course it also allows the Council to claim they had  an interested party when in fact none ever existed - but I am sure no one at SBC would try to pull a trick like that - would they?

Interesting point Des, I too am starting to ask the question as to whether or not these interested people ever existed and that the protagonists just hope the issue will go away.  We know different, it will not!!

Come clean now and preserve whatever bit of your integrity that is left and even that decreases by the day.  The longer this goes on the more it becomes relevant at next years elections and the more it will become discussed.  People are now anxiously trying to find out why such draconian cuts are required.  Well here is just one of the reasons and that includes the cost of the Barrister that was asked to advise on the Montaut debacle.
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Offline Des Morgan

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Re: WiFi Reference Documents & Sources Thread
« Reply #27 on: August 02, 2011, 12:46:09 PM »
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Can you explain who actually owe the money, who exactly is in debt?

The money £400,000 plus interest of approx £10,000 is owed to SBC by Digital City UK Limited.

Digital City UK Limited had 3 directors, now only 2 of which one is Coun Garry Perkins.

Digital City has a loan agreement with SBC in which it was agreed that DC would pay monthly interest on their loan at an agreed rate and they would pay the loan back within 2 years of the first drawdown.  This I believe occurred in October 2009 and was for £150,000. The directors at that time included Mr Hitesh Patel who claimed not to know he was director even though he had signed the papers and described himself as such on his 'Linkedin' site..

Digital City has defaulted on the loan interest repayments and on the substantive issue of providing a Wi-Fi system throughout the Borough.  Such a default is covered by punitive provisions in the loan agreement, provisions which SBC has proved reluctant to embrace.

Coun Perkins has a lega and fiduciary responsibility to DC, the compnay of which he is a director, however he also has a responsibility for the integrity of DC's actions and it could be argued that he has displayed a less than competent attitude towards his contractual obligations in resepct of provdiing a service to SBC.

What is unclear is why SBC would believe that an incoming investor would pay £400,000 to clear a debt owed to SBC by another party. The other party should be pursued for the repayment of the loan and for breach of contract.

The fact that this council appears leaden footed acould be down to the 'too close' relationship which exists between various parties to the issue.

ph1lc

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Re: WiFi Reference Documents & Sources Thread
« Reply #28 on: August 02, 2011, 12:53:20 PM »
Exactly what punitve provissions in the loan agreement Des?


Drone

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Re: WiFi Reference Documents & Sources Thread
« Reply #29 on: August 02, 2011, 05:16:01 PM »
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The directors at that time included Mr Hitesh Patel who claimed not to know he was director even though he had signed the papers and described himself as such on his 'Linkedin' site..

At the risk of repeating myself, this would be the Hitash Patel who is one of only 4 senior managers to be guaranteed to keep their jobs through the 'stronger together' cuts. Oh, if only we could all reach their level of integrity!

Quote
What is unclear is why SBC would believe that an incoming investor would pay £400,000 to clear a debt owed to SBC by another party. The other party should be pursued for the repayment of the loan and for breach of contract.


Arrogancy, idiocacy or insanity. There is no business model here, no profits or benefit that would ever offset even 10% of that amount.

Offline Des Morgan

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Re: WiFi Reference Documents & Sources Thread
« Reply #30 on: August 02, 2011, 07:04:24 PM »
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Exactly what punitive provisions in the loan agreement?

In the event that the loan be declared immeidately due and repayable (as it should in the event of default, which incidentally occurs if the Borrower commits a material breach of any of the terms of the agreement) the Borrower will reimburse the Lender for all losses and expenses incurred by the lender as a consequnce of the Event of Default and shall forthwith transfer the ownership of all Assets to the Lender. The certificate of the Lender as to the amount of such losses and expenses shall, in the absence of manifest error, be conclusive.


ph1lc

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Re: WiFi Reference Documents & Sources Thread
« Reply #31 on: August 02, 2011, 07:19:39 PM »
That's worthless Des, for it to be worth something DC would need to have some money or assets.
Most SENSIBLE people lending money to start up companies insist on a directors guarantee.

Banks will want their guarantee evn if their loan is secured on something like the companies debtors book (invoice discounting).

But then again SBC just ain't sensible.

The only hope SBC have is that they can persuade someone to complete the project - in effect any investor will be paying £400k for the use of SBC lamposts.

Offline Outoftowner

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Re: WiFi Reference Documents & Sources Thread
« Reply #32 on: August 02, 2011, 07:50:14 PM »
They could probably let the lamp posts go 2 for the price of 1. Buy 1 with electric and you get another one, that's swiched off to save power, for free.

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Offline Des Morgan

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Re: WiFi Reference Documents & Sources Thread
« Reply #33 on: August 02, 2011, 08:25:35 PM »
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That's worthless Des, for it to be worth something DC would need to have some money or assets.


Not quite as worthless as you suggest. However, it requires SBC to sue DC and its directors for breach of contract.  That isn't too far a stretch as they have breached the contract. They also need to show that DC had no intention or ability to complete the task which they agreed to undertake.

Offline boothill

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Re: WiFi Reference Documents & Sources Thread
« Reply #34 on: August 02, 2011, 08:38:01 PM »
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That's worthless Des, for it to be worth something DC would need to have some money or assets.


Not quite as worthless as you suggest. However, it requires SBC to sue DC and its directors for breach of contract.  That isn't too far a stretch as they have breached the contract. They also need to show that DC had no intention or ability to complete the task which they agreed to undertake.


Des

          Can you honestly see a time when SBC actually take any form of legal action against DC taking into account the "close" business relationships that have been forged during  this whole fiasco coupled with the undoubted "secret handshakes" that have probably been exchanged too ?

What do you personally envisage the ultimate outcome of this entire sorry affair to be, and more to the point, has anyone heard news of Mr Ricki (don't call me Cunningham) Hunt lately ?

Holding my breath as I type    (not)


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Offline moley

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Re: WiFi Reference Documents & Sources Thread
« Reply #35 on: August 02, 2011, 09:14:42 PM »
Saw this in the Telegraph today:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/internet/8677182/Virgin-Media-to-take-a-punt-on-free-London-WiFi-network.html

This (to me) makes sense in a way that Digital City did not - they are extending their existing infrastructure + also giving their fixed line customers something when out and about (and making sure that people are aware of alternatives to BT).  They also appear to be using their existing (high capacity) fibre backhaul...

Plus they've probably got enough £££ to build the network... (and experience of deploying telecomms networks and probably have the whole payment infrastructure in place already).

Offline Des Morgan

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Re: WiFi Reference Documents & Sources Thread
« Reply #36 on: August 02, 2011, 10:40:31 PM »
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Can you honestly see a time when SBC actually take any form of legal action against DC taking into account the "close" business relationships that have been forged during  this whole fiasco coupled

Yes I can BUT it will take a lot of 'encouragement' from the people of Swindon.  I agree that the alleged close relationship which exists between Rikki (for free) Hunt and others is unhealthy. 

How Coun Bluh must be regretting his most recent untterance 'It would be nice if we could engage in better debate more thorough deliberation about the choices we face and more grown up politics' Of course the irony is that he and his senior colleagues are expert in 'poor debate' - 'failing to be thorough in their deliberations' and engaging in 'childish politics'.

Offline Geoff Reid

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Re: WiFi Reference Documents & Sources Thread
« Reply #37 on: September 05, 2011, 12:30:34 AM »

Links updated at post #1

Hat-Tip to Komadori for pointing out some sloppy IT work on SBC's part.

Got Signal

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Re: WiFi Reference Documents & Sources Thread
« Reply #38 on: September 05, 2011, 08:24:07 AM »
Quote
Can you honestly see a time when SBC actually take any form of legal action against DC taking into account the "close" business relationships that have been forged during  this whole fiasco coupled

Yes I can BUT it will take a lot of 'encouragement' from the people of Swindon.  I agree that the alleged close relationship which exists between Rikki (for free) Hunt and others is unhealthy. 


This whole deal is about a relationship isn't it? Unless it was based on the history of the company at delivering connectivity as it had never done it before. It could have been its abilty to borrow money outside the council, as its credit rating was £500.  Was it on its ability to administer and its compliance, oh I forget it did not know who its directors were, where it was registered and when to submit its accounts.  So what was it based on?

Offline Richard Symonds

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Re: WiFi Reference Documents & Sources Thread
« Reply #39 on: September 09, 2011, 10:10:23 AM »
Hat-Tip to Komadori for pointing out some sloppy IT work on SBC's part.

But you have to ask the question, was it deliberate?
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