Topic: Swindon Federation of Community Organisations 1st Conference (Feb 2009)

[Muggins]

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Just for Busters info, as it seems that in his/or her area community groups have come out of one issue.  This is my story - I think I've said before I'm a keen gardener and joined the local gardening club,  within a short time I was secretary of that. That led me to be invited to a local self help centre,  ended up on the committee there and then working there for a couple of years. At the same time I joined the Local community association and became Secretary of that - and it was very active, providing a full year of activites for the community.  By the way, I didn't go inot any of this expecting to be 'secretary' there was simply no on else elected to do it.

Then I got involved in Northern Development planning issues  due to it affecting our community, I found that absolutely fascinating and discovered how little control we have over our fate and at times, how little our Councillors knew about what they were voting on!  Then we had the opportunity to set up a group to preserve the nearest large open space and thank goodness we did, so we got involved in all sorts of wildlife issues - boy! did we go on a learning curve is those years! We led campaigns for all sorts of things then.  I suppose you could say that was my 'special interest ' group, but the benefits it brought our community in understanding policy making and procedures was second to none.  However the main object of 'my passion' has been sidelined by all the other things we have to do because there is no one else to do it.  And that's why we come back to Real People Real Power - to get moe people engaged and involved.  Being part of a community assocation is not just about pontificating at meetings, it means rolling up your sleeves and getting things done in the community, be that digging holes for trees or cooking lunches for the older people.
Of course other people come to via what you might think are special interest or 'their passion' groups and they might well have started that way.  In some areas of Swindon, the only community group might be what you see as a 'special interest' group, however scratch the surface and there is a genuine community group, especially if the people involved live in one area. 

Community groups are usually the only conduit to the wider community in which they live.  If they are genuine people - then they will be devoting a good amount of time to doing their best. Sometimes the interest takes people on to becoming a councillor.  Indeed I think you will find that a good few of  the present Swindon Council came out of the Abbey Meads Community Association, which set up enthusiastically to get done what they could for the new estates, then collapsed just as quickly when they got on the council.  Those communties are now well served by their Parish Councils.  Now there is a challenge for someone to put me right.

As to membership of the Swindon Federation, that's on the web site I think. Will check, but can't change it at present.

[Buster]

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Just for Busters info, as it seems that in his/or her area community groups have come out of one issue.

Hmmm, now that's a response I'd expect from a politician, I assume that your dismissive tone is intended to imply that those with differing, or inconvenient, views are in some way wrong, in a minority or not quite on the same wavelength as everyone else.

This is my story.......I got involved in Northern Development planning issues  due to it affecting our community..........Then we had the opportunity to set up a group to preserve the nearest large open space.....

I wasn't aware that this thread was about you, however as you've chosen to make it so, can I ask whether you now agree that a single issue or special interest is a driver for people getting involved?  Especially as you've cited your involvement in two groups which I would consider to be rather specific to one issue so I'm not quite sure where you stand on this as your own background appears to prove my point.

I admit that it's not always easy to define the boundaries of one issue and, in my experience of being a member of groups with a common aim, if you were to speak to members of any group you would find that they each have a slightly different story to tell as to why they got involved in the group in the first place and which aspect of the issue was their particular gripe or concern. 

In this way community groups, or groups of any kind, are no different to political parties, where, in order to survive as an entity, the objectives, beliefs and initial drivers of the individuals are watered down, merged, horse traded and then managed into a message or campaign that, hopefully, addresses all of the issues and concerns of all members in a way that they are all happy with.  This is all done with the best of intentions, but invariably it doesn't work effectively and principles are sacrificed by some for the sake of unity. 

Perhaps this explains why engagement is an issue?  Perhaps those people on the 'outside' looking into these groups are wondering how and why the issues that they hold dear appear to be sidelined?  Meanwhile the members of the groups, whose like minded views and opinions only serve to constantly reinforce their own beliefs, are scratching their heads wondering why people on the 'outside' don't engage.

Not sure where you live Buster, but as you have community groups in your area I would have thought that constitutionally they would have to offer you the chance of standing for an officers position and voting on it.

I know, having been secretary of the Broad Street Area Community Council for the last 3 years, that we put out nomination forms for Officer positions, and they are attached to our bi-yearly Broadly Speaking newsletter. The newsletter is delivered to all homes within our constitutional area and voting takes place at our AGM, to which all residents in the area are welcome to attend and vote at, there’s not much else we can do to be more democratic, not within the budget we have anyway.

Thanks for explaining how you go about this in broad street Kecl, I agree that there isn't a great deal more that you could do to be more democratic and open so I guess you have to resign yourselves to only being able to legitimately claim to represent your membership, whatever that number is.  For the record, the broad street community group is probably one of the most well known groups and, I would add, one that I generally admire for its work and efforts, even though I don't agree with everything they have to say.

However, you say that one of your issues is the lack of engagement by many people.  This is the crux of what I have been saying.

I'm not a great believer in the concept of a silent majority as I consider this to be a term conveniently wheeled out by politicians, and seemingly by some 'community  leaders', to try and hush opponents by claiming that inaction or silence means agreement and that the vocal opponents therefore must represent a minority view. 

Therefore I still question whether community groups can legitimately claim to represent all members of the community, however 'community' is defined.  Whether they have a constitution or not, the only way these groups can claim to represent the people in their area is by those people explicitly giving them the right to do so.   Someone failing to engage or failing to vote in the elections cannot be taken to mean anything that condones and supports the group and its objectives.  This principle is the same for all groups, so any federation of groups will be equally unable to make any such claim.

In light of this I will be very interesting to see what the SFCO comes out with, and perhaps of equal interest will be whose views they claim they represent when they air these views.   

[Chav]

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Hi Buster 

Have you lived in your area a long time ?
Or are you quite new to your community ?

You don't have to answer if you don't want to, but being the nosey cow chav that I am, I
thought I would ask !

Chav 

[Buster]

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Hi Buster 

Have you lived in your area a long time ?
Or are you quite new to your community ?

You don't have to answer if you don't want to, but being the nosey cow chav that I am, I
thought I would ask !

Chav 

Hi Chav, I don't mind answering this at all.  I've lived in my current home for nearly 2 years, but have lived in the same area of Swindon, i.e. within about a mile of where I live now for the last 10 years. 

[Thelma and Louise]

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Hey there Buster  ;)

If you are in need of a little community spirit ...........then Thelma & I will
always come and collect you in our Thunderbird 66 and take you to our local for a few bevvies  

Don't be shy now Buster, we'll soon have you nice and relaxed.............  

We will give you a good ole tour of our community any time !

                                 Thelma & Louise  

[Chav]

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Hi Buster 

Have you lived in your area a long time ?
Or are you quite new to your community ?

You don't have to answer if you don't want to, but being the nosey cow chav that I am, I
thought I would ask !

Chav 

Hi Chav, I don't mind answering this at all.  I've lived in my current home for nearly 2 years, but have lived in the same area of Swindon, i.e. within about a mile of where I live now for the last 10 years. 

Hi Buster
Thank you for your answer.

Have you noticed a difference in your community in regards of where you live now,
as opposed to when you lived in the same area but a mile away ?

                              Chav 

[komadori]

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Community groups are usually the only conduit to the wider community in which they live.

In most cases they are only a conduit to that small part of the community that participates to some extent in the group. They cannot, and should not claim to, represent the majority of the community 'in which they live', and government should not treat them as though they do. (Though obviously the more people are involved in the group, the more likely they are to be representative.)

However the main object of 'my passion' has been sidelined by all the other things we have to do because there is no one else to do it.  And that's why we come back to Real People Real Power - to get moe people engaged and involved.

A central government imposed process, invented solely because the continued centralisation of power has killed interest in local government seems a poor way of doing that. This isn't "Real People Real Power": if the government wants "Real People" to have "Real Power" it should stop passing legislation that continues to take power from individuals, local councils and just about anything else where there was still local control.

[Muggins]

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Firstly sorry, I haven't really got the hang of how to copy bits into this reply to answer them!

And sorry of I gave the impression I thought this was all about me!  I gave my story to show how people get involved in their community and get to know it - well, as well as anyone can get to know it, and Yes, this is the way most people get active in their community - obviously not via the groups I did, but through all sorts of groups and interests. For instance others on our group come via 25 years of scouting, another through a local fathers group, chav will tell you how she got involved, I could go on, but their story's are not mine to tell - that why I could only tell you mine and to show the varied interests and contacts I have! 

The 'conduit' bit means the groups are a first port of call into the community, not a barricade to the rest of the community. Those of us who do, really can't be held responsible for those who don't - or won't.  Just like Broad Green we do the best we can.  I don't just sit indoors hoping people will come along and I'm not doing it by myself I'm very much part of a team in everything I do - it's our greatest strength.

Yes, you are right of course, that one special interest or one issue can get people involved, I can't think that I said otherwise. However usually when the one issue is solved or otherwise most of those involved slip back into the background, we might 'net' a couple of lenger term activists from it and we should value those who do get involved even for short time. Basically it doesn't really matter how they come, so long as they stay and develop their knowledge. Does it make someone a bad person to want to fight (or whatever) on a single issue or develop a special interest group? I think not, just so long as when they join the others in their community - and I mean geographical communities here. - they act and think for the many rather than themselves/group.  For instance it is considered that a really good community centre managment group is made up of representatives of all the groups and organisations using that centre. (Chuckle - imagine the first couple of meetings of that as group!) When it comes to joining a group like the Federation, I use the lessons and experiences learnt via the other groups to enable me to do what I have to, to help make that a better organisation.

It's a matter of great frustration that no matter what we do in our community, what we put on for the community, what we put through their door, some will just not come along and/or tell us what they think -by advertising the events we also hope that more people will get engaged with the whole process. That's why we keep banging on about it and the need for them to see we are trying to represent them.  If we do not, that leaves our community either under represented or poorly represented.

[Chav]

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Hi Muggins 

Would you be willing to answer the following questions:

How long have you lived in your area ?

How long have you been involved in the community side of things ? groups/forums etc..............

And what changes have you seen since you have lived in your community in respect of peoples attitudes towards the community/forums/groups/the voluntary sector etc etc.

Oh and also what has the support been like from the Council for the time you have been involved in the community.

You do not have to answer, but it will give us an insight of what it is really like. 


                                                 Chav   

[Muggins]

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Hi Chav.  I do wish I could figure out how to put comments into my messages!

I was born in Swindon.  I have lived in my area for (stops to count fingers) since 1967. I became involved about 1982/3.

When I started doing things I was inspired by the amount of  people that were involved on the estate - sleeves rolled up and getting on and doing things for the community. In the past ten years, but more rapidly in the last five years, I have seen a massive downturn in people wanting to help out and a massive upturn in the requirements to get funding to do it. Oh and that Health and Safety thing. Frankly we have to be all things to all people (authority) now.

Support from the Borough?  I suppose I am a product of the old SBC Community Development Dept. Sometimes the encouragement from them was more of a "take that training or you won't get funds" stick, but there was also a gentle nudging in the right direction - and a muted respect when you did do something.

It was older members of the community that 'empowered' me, showing that you could stick up for yourself, what you could and couldn't expect to change or comment upon and how to do it. Workers won't encourage any of that now - don't blame them particularly, not with the way the job situation is.

Sometimes I think that authority see us as vast army of unpaid workers expecting us to do as we are told, rather than meeting us half way or acknowleding that we are doing whatever because somewhere there is a 'passion'.

I do not now see skilled workers out in the community encouraging engagement, the funding level have plummetted since the Lottery and you have to be a blooming expert to write an application that will  get you funds.

Oh! And every three to five years they change the terminology and jargon, just to keep you on your toes.

[Chav]

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Hi Muggins

Thank you for your answers  ;)

You certainly have a wealth of experience as well as knowledge that comes from the many years of work you have been involved in.

I have always been interested in my community, since moving to the area in 1986.

I was was very young then (19) I got to know other people in the community by talking to them , I was also a young mum, and mixed with other mums, after I had been in the area for a few years, I did attend a few Penhill Community Association meetings and became as involved as I could, although I could not commit to every meeting (those were the days of Ray Meader).

I then took over the running of the Chippenham Walk community centre mother and toddler group.
However, numbers using it dwindled and so I gave it up.

I then got a job at Ricks Off-Licence and was there for 11 years, I loved it.
People used to come in just for a chat sometimes, it was great, I made many friends and used to help people where I could, who needed help with filling in forms etc, and wanting to know who to speak to re: issues involving the council.

I eventuall moved from the Valley (Lower Penhill) to another area of Penhill in 1995.
I then still wanted to do something to do with the community etc, so I then joined Swindon Tennants Voice.

I went for a while, but due to some family issues I could no longer commit.

However, once things were ok again familywise, I had the urge to become involved in community things again, so then I joined the Penhill Water Park group (Group involved in trying to get the old Paddling Pool back), I also used to attend the Twist meetings.

I must also give credit to Talk Swindon as becoming a TS member and looking at the various issues and posts on here, it has certainly given me an insight into things and helped me to become more knowledgable.  (so thank you TS)

One thing led to another and I then became involved in the Penhill Forum Steering Group, part of the Penhill News team, and more recently part of the 'Inside Penhill' media group.

I suppose I am a natural people person, I relate to people from all walks of life.
I am not afraid to speak up for people (who want me to of course lol) regarding local issues etc.
I am not afraid to campaigne for things either. The more knocks I get, the sronger I become.

Well thats me.......... I am a busy person, but I do love my community and the people in it.
They are the salt of the earth, what you see is what you get and its understanding their frustrations and needs.


Anyone else have a story of how they are involved/have been involved in their community.

I find it very interesting.
Plus I am a nosey cow chav.

Chav 

[Geoff Reid]

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Bump.

Several very well made points in this topic.  Have a read of this and then see: Swindon Housing Association 'Shadow' Board Under The Spotlight