Author Topic: Residents' parking permits set to rise  (Read 25561 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline peach

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 112
Residents' parking permits set to rise
« on: February 06, 2009, 10:40:27 AM »
SOME residents’ parking permits will triple in price under Swindon Council's budget proposals.

Visitor parking permits will rise to £15 from £5, while a six-month residents’ permit will go up from £12.50 to £25.

An annual permit will rise from £25 to £40. Second and third permits are also facing price hikes.

There will also be less money allocated for parking wardens, and town centre parking on a Sunday is set to increase.

Coun Mark Edwards, lead member for resources, said about parking permits: “This is an area where prices haven’t gone up for quite some time.

“We don’t believe the increases are unreasonable and we have to look at all possibilities to raise revenue in the current climate.

He continued: “We are not seeking to cut jobs in parking enforcement – what are doing is looking at making savings in that department.

“That means that if the department is running well with 80 per cent of the staff it is recommended to have, then perhaps we don’t need to fill that further 20 per cent.

“We are also bringing Sunday parking into line with weekdays in the town centre.

“Retailers have raised concerns over this but I think most people would now see Sunday as a shopping day like any other.”

http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/4106702.Residents__parking_permits_set_to_rise/




Offline Geoff Reid

  • Twitter: @Geoff_Reid
  • Active But Odd
  • Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 10109
  • Gender: Male
  • Bald as a chimps arse
Re: Residents' parking permits set to rise
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2009, 11:18:02 AM »


Coun Mark Edwards, lead member for resources, said about parking permits:


Quote from: Cllr Mark Edwards
“This is an area where prices haven’t gone up for quite some time.

And they don't need to rise because of anything related to residents parking, do they Mark?



Quote from: Cllr Mark Edwards
“We are not seeking to cut jobs in parking enforcement – what are doing is looking at making savings in that department.


It amounts to the same thing doesn't it ?


Quote from: Cllr Mark Edwards
“We don’t believe the increases are unreasonable and we have to look at all possibilities to raise revenue in the current climate.

Bingo!, a final admission that the residents parking scheme has official 'Cash Cow' status.


But Marks not finished:


Quote from: Cllr Mark Edwards
“Retailers have raised concerns over this but I think most people would now see Sunday as a shopping day like any other.”


...and as the milking parlour is open seven days a week, Swindonites should expect to feel the unsubtle clamp of SBC's milking apparatus every day of the year if you live in an rp zone or want to visit the town centre.

 



Offline kecl

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 377
  • Gender: Male
    • Broad Street Area Community Council
Re: Residents' parking permits set to rise
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2009, 11:42:01 AM »
Quote
Coun Mark Edwards, lead member for resources, said about parking permits: “This is an area where prices haven’t gone up for quite some time.

“We don’t believe  and we have to look at all possibilities to raise revenue in the current climate.

Easy target residents parking, a captive audience so to speak. W :censored: ers.
You want a car or have visitors and live in the town centre then your hands are tied, complain and no doubt we will be told the scheme could be scrapped, but then areas around the centre will be filled with shoppers taking advantage of the free parking.

Can't remember the last time permit prices were increased, but they went up quite a bit then. Cllr. Edwards may be the new resources head honcho, but I note he says 'WE' don’t believe the increases are unreasonable, so is that a royal 'WE' or is someone else pulling the strings?

Well I believe the increases are unreasonable, a little more justification to such high percentage hikes would be appreciated but I don't expect it to come.

No wonder Central and Eascott don't have any Conservative Councillors. But then I would hazard a guess that it probably suits them that way, wouldn't want any grief from within eh? !!! :fence1:
http://community.webshots.com/user/bucket66   http://www.broadstreetcc.btik.com/ He who is not contented with what he has, would not be contented with

Offline Alligator

  • Twitter - @Alliflowchart
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1846
  • Gender: Male
Re: Residents' parking permits set to rise
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2009, 11:50:14 AM »
This doesn't surprise me at all.  The same happens to all revenue streams for councils and government.  What starts out as a 'not for profit' service becomes a cash cow.  If we're not careful we'll find car owners and drivers subsidising other services.  Especially when you consider that the conservative administration can't be touched by the residents hit by this increase as they don't have any conservative councillors, so politically it's a low risk, high earning idea.

I'm sure that somewhere in the depths of one of the many threads on residents parking there is a statement that resident's parking should not only be self funding, but I think the point that town centre parking should be fnded and managed separately, despite using the same enforcement people.

Perhaps a FOI request is in order to see exactly how much resident's parking costs to run and how much revenue it generates and if there's a surplus, ask the question as to why residents in these zones are being taxed in this way.

I wonder if this would happen if we were all able to elect the leader of the council.   :-\

Offline kecl

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 377
  • Gender: Male
    • Broad Street Area Community Council
Re: Residents' parking permits set to rise
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2009, 11:55:09 AM »
When residents parking was first introduced, Thamesdown Council said there would only be a one off administration payment to join the scheme. Unfortunately that one off payment didn't last. :(
http://community.webshots.com/user/bucket66   http://www.broadstreetcc.btik.com/ He who is not contented with what he has, would not be contented with

Offline Mart

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5249
  • Where's my cow?
Re: Residents' parking permits set to rise
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2009, 12:46:08 PM »
Got to cover them increased allowances one way or another.

Wankers.

Empty the bins.
Sometimes I think you have to march right in and demand your rights, even if you don’t know what your rights are, or who the person is you’re talking to. Then, on the way out, slam the door.

Offline James

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 907
Re: Residents' parking permits set to rise
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2009, 01:35:09 PM »
What happened to the residents group which was going to be set up?
What did they have to say about these changes?

We are unlikely to be effected by the price increases, but a change to Sunday would be a real pain.

James

Offline PAV

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 386
Re: Residents' parking permits set to rise
« Reply #7 on: February 06, 2009, 01:52:38 PM »
You'd think parking enforcement would pay for itself 100 times over? If it doesn't even I'd suggest they're looking in the worng places.

I don't have a problem with residents parking price increases. It makes me laugh how people buy houses with no parking and then maon and complain that they have nowhere to park their cars. Well, durrrgh?

As for town centre parking charges. Town centre? You mean that place with lots of boarded-up shops and a McDonalds? Interesting when I was in the States last year we noticed how every car park we used, including right in the centre of LA and Santa Barbara offered two hours of free parking. You want to re-vitalise the town centre? Start with this.

Offline Bobby Bingo

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1084
  • Gender: Male
Re: Residents' parking permits set to rise
« Reply #8 on: February 06, 2009, 03:08:21 PM »
It would be interesting to know just how many councillors are subjected to the Residents Parking Scheme.
Regarding the Sunday parking charges they don't pay any charges. They use the Civic Offices even when not on duty. Have a look some time on a Saturday and Sunday when there are very,very rarely any official duties.
Bobby

Offline kecl

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 377
  • Gender: Male
    • Broad Street Area Community Council
Re: Residents' parking permits set to rise
« Reply #9 on: February 06, 2009, 03:52:00 PM »
I don't have a problem with residents parking price increases.

OK, but do you live in a residents parking zone yourself?

Quote
last year we noticed how every car park we used, including right in the centre of LA and Santa Barbara offered two hours of free parking. You want to re-vitalise the town centre? Start with this.

At one time, in Swindon town centre, there was free all day parking for both shoppers and workers, it was called the surrounding residential areas.  Eventually residents got fed up not being able to park near their homes because of it and launched a campaign to stop it, hence res. parking came in.

Quote
Bobby Bingo said:
It would be interesting to know just how many councillors are subjected to the Residents Parking Scheme.

Well Bob, I believe Councillors Dickinson and Wiltshire do, and I'm not sure if Councillor Bluh does or not. Is Clifton Street in a zone? And I am certain that other Councillors have interests in properties that are in parking zones.


http://community.webshots.com/user/bucket66   http://www.broadstreetcc.btik.com/ He who is not contented with what he has, would not be contented with

Offline Alligator

  • Twitter - @Alliflowchart
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1846
  • Gender: Male
Re: Residents' parking permits set to rise
« Reply #10 on: February 06, 2009, 04:32:11 PM »
I don't have a problem with residents parking price increases.

OK, but do you live in a residents parking zone yourself?

I no longer live in a parking zone, but when I did, my view was that I had no issue with the scheme covering its own costs, as long as it was being run efficiently. What I didn't want was to be seen as a cash cow to pay for services elsewhere in the borough or as a means of subsidising parking in the town centre car parks as they benefit the whole town, including the retailers, and should therefore be managed and funded in isolation from the resident's schemes.

Quote
Bobby Bingo said:
It would be interesting to know just how many councillors are subjected to the Residents Parking Scheme.

Well Bob, I believe Councillors Dickinson and Wiltshire do, and I'm not sure if Councillor Bluh does or not. Is Clifton Street in a zone? And I am certain that other Councillors have interests in properties that are in parking zones.

I think Dave Wood does as well and Clifton St does fall within the scheme so I guess Rod will be hit as well, though I'm sure the pay rise he awarded himself will more than compensate for that!

Offline Mart

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5249
  • Where's my cow?
Re: Residents' parking permits set to rise
« Reply #11 on: February 06, 2009, 08:58:31 PM »
Wankers, bugger already said that.

Yup, way back when when I was a wide eyed innocent it was residents parking that turned me into the haggard embittered ranting cynic I am today, I moved, still in a residents parking area, but I have a garage and a parking bay. My new mortgage is currently 4p, my house is worth 12p so that's fair enough.

We have to take it in turns to stand in the back garden. Or I stand in next doors but they've got a bit funny about it. I think it was the gazing into their windows at 3am and putting my plants in their flowerbeds, could have been the cat crapping with gay abandon. Since they no longer speak to me I may never know, but that's another story.

I swear blind I was told residents parking was not a revenue stream as a direct response to my question 'Are we a revenue stream?' I swear blind some herbert who is probably 'No longer with SBC' (cos there was a lot of that) wrote and explained that all monies grifted paid by residents was ploughed back into the infrastructure, admin, groups, committees, quangos etbloodycetera that underpinned the administration of the residents parking scheme.

We found out that the size of spaces would comfortably suit an Ice Road Trucker and his rig, we were told that spaces would be created by the removal of yellow lines, I wonder how many spaces were created? Sweet sod all I suspect, dear me, I even voted Lib Dem cos he gurned in various papers to demonstrate his sympathy and determination to act. I assume said councillor was abducted by aliens and can only fervently wish he is getting a rigorous anal probing.

Basically the thing is a sack of shite, every other buggers property has seen the arse drop out of it's value, but apparently tarmac is at a premium. Profiteering 2 faced wankers.

Course I could be wrong, and am willing to be corrected by my public servants in a clinical and humiliating way.

Connecting with the Community, well you are well lodged up my arse nose.
Sometimes I think you have to march right in and demand your rights, even if you don’t know what your rights are, or who the person is you’re talking to. Then, on the way out, slam the door.

Offline Geoff Reid

  • Twitter: @Geoff_Reid
  • Active But Odd
  • Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 10109
  • Gender: Male
  • Bald as a chimps arse
Re: Residents' parking permits set to rise
« Reply #12 on: February 07, 2009, 12:26:40 AM »
 
I think it was the gazing into their windows at 3am and putting my plants in their flowerbeds, could have been the cat crapping with gay abandon. Since they no longer speak to me I may never know, but that's another story.

Going way off topic for a moment, I once lived opposite someone I didn't like very much.  One day, as I was leaving the house, my neighbour opposite shouted across the road at me:

Quote from: My neighbour
"Hoy!, your cat is crapping on my front garden!  >:( >:( >:( "


...and there, bold as brass, was my beloved cat Shabba curling one off, right in the middle of his closely cropped lawn. (Usually she preferred recently turned over flower beds or gravel, but I think she was making some important feline point).

I considered what I was seeing. Angry neighbour, arms folded glaring at my cat from his front door, his wife and children peering through the kitchen windows, the cat unconcernedly laying cable in enemy territory.

I delivered a my response....

Quote
"Who says you can't train a cat?"

He never spoke to me again  O0


karen leakey

  • Guest
Re: Residents' parking permits set to rise
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2009, 04:32:46 PM »
The last time residents parking permit charges were increased was in April 2006, when the cost increased hugely:

Up to 3rd April 2006
Residents’ permit - £12 per annum
Visitors’ permit - £5 per book
Business permit - £576 per annum in Zone A; and £494 in all other Zones.

After 3rd April 2006
First residents’ permit - £25 per annum – homeowners – increase of £13
First residents’ permit - £12.50 per 6 months – tenants – new permit
Second residents’ permit - £50 – increase of £38
Third residents’ permit - £100 – only those previously entitled to one – increase of £88
Visitors’ permit - £5 per book – no increase
Business permit - £576 per annum in Zone A; and £494 in all other Zones – no increase

Proposed increases 2009
First residents’ permit - £40 per annum – homeowners – increase of £15
First residents’ permit - £25 per 6 months – tenants – increase of £12.50
Second residents’ permit - £50 – increase TBA
Third residents’ permit - £100 – only those previously entitled to one – increase TBA
Visitors’ permit - £15 per book – increase of £10


So if the new proposed increases are implemented, residents with one car will have seen the cost of their parking permit increase in the last 3 years from £12 p/a to £40 p/a, most definitely not as Mr Edwards sees it, a reasonable increase.

I also see that a 6 month permit will increase to a cost that will then be more than half that of a 12 month one, and visitors permits will increase by two thirds, that is a huge increase and will particularly hit pensioners, as they tend to have more visitors than younger residents.


There is no argument that the scheme should pay for itself, but it’s obvious that residents’ parking is now being looked upon as a revenue stream - “we have to look at all possibilities to raise revenue in the current climate” kind of gives it away!!!

Looking at the Councils ‘Central Area On-Street Parking Review’ - final report - July 2007, there are the number of permits and financial figures for 2005/06:

In 2005, across all zones, 5006 first permits were issued, 400 second permits were issued and 19 third permits were issued, giving a total of 5863 permits issued.

Summary of income and expenditure 2005/2006

Income
residents’ permits                          £56,790.00
Visitors’ permits                             Â£31,162.00
Business permits                           Â£26,107.00
SUB-TOTAL                                 Â£114,059.00
Penalty charges within all zones       Â£113,383.00 
TOTAL                                         Â£227.442.00


Expenditure
The direct expenditure associated with operating and enforcing the RPZs in 2005/06 was estimated at £221,118.00. This includes: maintenance, replacement of missing and damaged signs and posts; re-painting of carriageway markings; officer time; parking attendants; and administration support staff costs.

Direct expenditure                      £221,118.00
TOTAL                                       Â£221,118.00
Total income                             Â£227.442.00
Total expenditure                     Â£221,118.00
Operating surplus                    £6,324.00

During the 2005/06 financial year, the residents’ parking zones made an operating surplus of £6,324. It is anticipated that the operating surplus will increase, following the increase in the cost of residents’ parking permits that came into force on 3 April 2006.

The last line is quite interesting and it will be worth finding out the up to date figures – I feel an FOI enquiry coming on…..

What will be most interesting is what sort of opposition to these increases the Councillors representing each of the 3 Wards the residents parking zones are in, actually put up to these big increases. Old Town will be of particular interest.

I know by the number of calls I have received from my neighbours in Broadgreen that people are livid about this and I can’t imagine that residents in the other areas will find these increases justifiable or acceptable.

Offline concerned_of_Old_Town

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 481
Re: Residents' parking permits set to rise
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2009, 04:48:03 PM »
What will be most interesting is what sort of opposition to these increases the Councillors representing each of the 3 Wards the residents parking zones are in, actually put up to these big increases. Old Town will be of particular interest.


You  are assuming our councillor will turn up at the meeting in the first place!
http://www.talkswindon.org/index.php?topic=3909.0

Offline Mart

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5249
  • Where's my cow?
Re: Residents' parking permits set to rise
« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2009, 05:08:55 PM »
I was pleased to see those tables, I thought I was going round the twist and imagining £12 a year, I may have a trawl through my old e-mail folder for any other untruths.

This really only supports my theory that all that seperates political types is the colour of the rosette, basically all some a few one or two start out with the best of intentions, then it all turns to cack and they start spouting how they know best and costing money for not much in return, I thought it was gordnon's lot who tax everything to buggery, but it appears it is an economic theory that knows no boundaries, like fiddling expenses within the 'strict' guidelines.

I'm guessing that if cost to residents has more than tripled, and costs are being cut, that bottom line is going to be getting quite chubby, tad insensitive in the present climate and hot on the heels of an expenses increase that was wafted through with some wafty words of justification that sounded to my ill educated ear a bit like 'Let them eat cake'.

Is it true that the chimps that allow this nonsense then avoid parking charges themselves by using the council offices, name and shame I reckon, or a happy ten minutes with the camera. If that's true then that is very, very poor.

I'm getting a bit tired of this, but assuming I can stop swearing long enough, what can realistically be done, by their rules, that will really, really hack them off.

My councillor has done little but prove disappointing.
Sometimes I think you have to march right in and demand your rights, even if you don’t know what your rights are, or who the person is you’re talking to. Then, on the way out, slam the door.

Offline Alligator

  • Twitter - @Alliflowchart
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1846
  • Gender: Male
Re: Residents' parking permits set to rise
« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2009, 06:42:47 PM »
Thanks for posting these figures Karen.

It proves to me that the pricing of permits were at the right level in 2005/06.  A £6k surplus is a very small surplus when you consider it as a percentage of the sums involved.

I've just done some very high level number crunching using the volumes of permits issued in 2005 as a guide and then extrapolated these into revenue at 2006/07 prices as well as the proposed prices for 2009. 

Resident's Permits

5006 at £12 per permit equates to £60,012, 400 2nd permits at £50 adds another £20,000 and 19 3rd permits another £1,900 a year, giving a total revenue of around £82,000 this will increase to at least £222,140 from 2009

Visitor Permits

£31,162 at £5 per book equates to 6232 books across the borough, at £15 per book, the council will rake in £93,486.

In total, the council can expect to rake in an additional £202,497 per year at the very least on resident's permits and visitor permits alone.

What Swindon Councillors have done here is confirm, beyond a shadow of doubt, that they see the resident's of Central Swindon, Old Town and Eastcott as a cash cow that can be taxed over and above the residents of other wards.  It's interesting that only one of these wards has conservative councillors and even then, those residents affected probably make up a small percentage of the electorate in that ward.

This is a very unfair tax, there's no other way of describing it.

I sincerely hope that the people of these wards let their feelings be known to the council and do so as publicly as possible.

To me it highlights the issues we see when we have a lack of direct accountability of those people in charge.

Offline Alex

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 993
  • Gender: Female
    • Alex Coppock-Bunce Hypnotherapy & Counselling
Re: Residents' parking permits set to rise
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2009, 07:53:58 PM »
The numbers are very interesting Ali- proving its another despicable tax on residents who cannot afford it- especially in this financial climate. 

nd it hardly encourages people to invite visitors. How about  incentivising residents by paying them to get friends and family to come here!

Another nail in the coffin of feeling engaged in Swindon and its culture- and with the council- why would we  trust anything they say when the numbers prove the opposite is true?




Offline Geoff Reid

  • Twitter: @Geoff_Reid
  • Active But Odd
  • Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 10109
  • Gender: Male
  • Bald as a chimps arse
Re: Residents' parking permits set to rise
« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2009, 10:13:22 PM »
 
I take no pleasure in saying this:

About a year ago, I suggested to a Councillor that the town centre and the housing areas immediately surrounding were feeling distinctly like a municipally operated milking parlour.

The Councillor in question thought it was a ridiculous suggestion and the term 'hysterical bullshit' was used more than once.

It didn't seem hysterical to me at the time and it doesn't now.
 

Offline Tobes

  • Regents
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4951
Re: Residents' parking permits set to rise
« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2009, 09:45:55 AM »
There's no denying that the residents parking issue is a thorny one. The justification (at least) for the increased ticket prices was to apply some market eccenomics to the situation - increase the price, see who's prepared to pay the premium to have more than one car. The cynics amongst us wonder if in fact, its really yet another revenue raising opportunity to offset increases in council tax (along with the swingeing fines and the fact that the wardens deliberately target areas when they know they'll get a maximum 'harvest' - ie before 8.00am and after 5.00pm)

The proof whether we are milch cows providing a revenue stream is simple: Are the increases in prices accompanied by a linear decrease in the number of second ticket applications? If yes, the scheme is working. If no, its merely subterfuge to raise revenue. Simple, straightforward.

I invite the councillors to publish the stats and show whether second ticket and visitor permit applications are increasing and decreasing.

as for

Quote
I don't have a problem with residents parking price increases. It makes me laugh how people buy houses with no parking and then maon and complain that they have nowhere to park their cars. Well, durrrgh?

Thats because they generally don't 'moan', you self centred  :censored:. When I moved in eight years ago, there was plenty of parking. What changed was the sheer volume of in-fill multi-fat developments (nine new flats on my tiny street alone - meaning a potential of 18 additional cars!). The council cretin incumbent at the time informed me - incorrectly as it turned out - that there was nothing which could be done at the planning stage to refuse permits to new properties which didn't provide off-street parking. As a result, at the height of the property boom, one busy but manageable streets became chock-a-block.

I think the current administration have done some really good things subsequently; listening to residents, opening the car parks 'out of hours' to residents with permits and changing the planning rules (rather too late, but better then than never...)

However, raising permit prices is emotive - not to mention disengenuous - if it doesn't show a linear relationship with the number of permits applied for and the congestion on the streets. THE SCHEME WAS SUPPOSED TO BENEFIT RESIDENTS - not provide a form of taxation.

I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - [attributed to] Voltaire... 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita' - William of Occam.... 'You have a right to feel offended, but just cos you are offended doesn't mean you are right'