Author Topic: Transport Dept takes over Policing  (Read 741 times)

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Offline Mart

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Transport Dept takes over Policing
« on: October 17, 2008, 08:21:31 PM »
Transport Secretary Geoff Hoon has said the government is prepared to go "quite a long way" with civil liberties to "stop terrorists killing people".

Iran and Afghanistan to name but two, but they don't actually go do they?

He was responding to criticism of plans for a database of mobile and web records, saying it was needed because terrorists used such communications.
By not monitoring this traffic, it would be "giving a licence to terrorists to kill people", he said

I am not aware of anyone being killed or physically injured by an e-mail or telephone call. Largely it tends to be things that go bang. Perhaps they should concentrate on them. Yes, bombs and guns would be a start, and I would humbly suggest, people encouraging terrorist acts in broad daylight at the top of their voices.

Lib Dem MP Julia Goldsworthy queried how far it would undermine freedom.

Quite a long way dear. Quite a long way. But, as an MP, I expect you will find you are exempt.

Earlier the government confirmed the controversial plans would not be in the Queen's Speech.

In case terrorists get to hear about it?

On BBC One's Question Time, Mr Hoon said the plans would only extend powers that already exist for ordinary telephone calls, to cover data and information "going across the internet".


He said the police and security services needed the powers to deal with "terrorists or criminals" using telephones connected to the internet, for "perfectly proper reasons, to protect our society".

No, they need to take away things that go bang, and when they catch people with things that go bang, hang them by a body part until they expire, chop a bit off that will cause them to expire and ensure that something is done so that corpse does not then go to heaven, or wherever. Providing a roof over perpetrators heads and three square meals a day does not seem to be much of a deterrent.

But the Lib Dems' communities spokeswoman Julia Goldsworthy said it sounded like "something I would expect to read in [George Orwell's book] 1984" and questioned whether the government and councils could be trusted not to misuse the powers.

So she hasn't read it? And, the answer to the question is 'No'.

She asked: "How much more control can they have? How far is he prepared to go to undermine civil liberties?"

They can have much more control, and they are prepared to go a very long way, as they are almost certainly exempt.

Mr Hoon interjected: "To stop terrorists killing people in our society, quite a long way actually. "If they are going to use the internet to communicate with each other and we don't have the power to deal with that, then you are giving a licence to terrorists to kill people."

To be honest any terrorist worth their salt is going to be encrypted to buggery and use other means aren't they? No, it will just trawl up sad muppets with niche interests.

He added: "The biggest civil liberty of all is not to be killed by a terrorist."

But not cold cos you can't afford heat, or a delayed ambulance cos the service has been 'improved', or a superbug in hospital, or a teenager making his bones (I believe that's the parlance), or a pissed and doped up shithead and his mates you have asked to stop jumping up and down on your car, or by your own hand cos your pension is screwed, your house is up for repossession, your savings have gone pop and you've lost your job. No, these do not figure in his profound reckonings.

The plans were condemned as "Orwellian" on Wednesday by the Liberal Democrats and the Conservatives have called on the government to justify proposals for a giant database containing all internet and telephone traffic.

The database will of course be accessed by the first 12 year old with 2 minutes to kill.

Details of the times, dates, duration and locations of mobile phone calls, numbers called, website visited and addresses e-mailed are already stored by telecommunications companies for 12 months under a voluntary agreement.

As a result of which how many terrorists have been arrested? I forgot, we only monitor them now, the more we claim we are monitoring the more liberties we can take. Boom boom.

The data can be accessed by police on request but the government plans to take control of the process in order to comply with an EU directive and make it easier for investigators to do their job.

If it is an eu directive how can the government take control? Does this mean the government of the day is the gatekeeper of the database and requests for access may be granted or denied with a political tinge?

Information would be kept for two years by law and may be held centrally on a searchable database. The government had also promised new laws to protect civil liberties.

Yes, the database will be searchable at any public library, the government also promised a referendum, peace by Christmas, to be tough on almost anything and the causes of anything, the end of boom and bust and that Iraq had WMD's. I trust them implicitly.

Shadow home secretary Dominic Grieve said pulling all the information together in a central server, to be managed by government, "represents a very profound change in the relationship between the state and the citizen".

No, it's a natural development of the one we already have.

In a speech on Wednesday Home Secretary Jacqui Smith said a consultation would be held on the controversial plan in the New Year but did not say if it would be dropped from the Queen's Speech which sets out the government's legislative programme for the year ahead


However, on Thursday Commons leader Harriet Harman confirmed it would be delayed after calls in the Commons from the Conservatives and Lib Dems for a debate on the draft Communications Data Bill, in which it was due to be outlined.

Then shortly after coloured in very neatly.

She told MPs: "The draft communication bill was in the draft legislative programme and a number of issues and concerns have been raised about it.
"The home secretary makes it clear that at all times, on important issues such as these, she wants to listen to what people's concerns are, she wants to consider those concerns, she wants to consult on a bipartisan and wide basis."

Then go right ahead anyway, after claiming they were monitoring the entire population of Yemen who were intent on sending us some very nasty e-mails and pest calls.

On Wednesday Ms Smith attempted to reassure people that the content of their e-mails and phone conversations would not be stored and local authorities would not be able to trawl through looking for "lower level criminality".

Yes they will, and yes they will.

But the proposals came under fire from critics, including the government's own reviewer of anti-terror laws, Lord Carlile, who said it would need "very strict controls".

Lord Carlile has since been arrested for admitting in an e-mail that he once put his rubbish out on the wrong day.

Sometimes I think you have to march right in and demand your rights, even if you don’t know what your rights are, or who the person is you’re talking to. Then, on the way out, slam the door.