Author Topic: Adver 'Elected Mayors' Webchats  (Read 12061 times)

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Offline Alligator

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Re: Adver 'Elected Mayors' Webchats
« Reply #20 on: October 17, 2008, 01:56:55 PM »
The voting now seems to be re-opened.

http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/mayor/


However in my opinion the question(S) and how they seem to calculate the percentages it is flawed. They should be two entirely different yes or no questions and it should not be possible to vote for all four options (which are mutually exclusive) and thus mess up the percentages


Although it is still allowing people to voe, I think it is actually closed.  It is all a little confusing, I think the software is only really designed for a yes/no type of response, it was initially suggested that you have to double the results of each question in order to get the total percentage results, however at the moment, the online poll results are showing as:

Yes, I want a referendum  - 30% - meaning a result of 60% response to that question

No, I do not want a referendum - 22% - meaning a result of 44% response to that question

In a referendum, I would vote for an elected mayor - 28% - meaning a result of 56% response to that question

In a referendum, I would vote against an elected mayor - 20% - meaning a result of 40% response to that question

So, if you take the first two questions as being mutually exclusive, then doubling the nubers up would mean that the first two questions generated a 104% response and a 96% response to the 3rd and 4th questions.  I guess that this may mean that some people didn't respond to both sets of questions.  All in all, I can't make much sense of it.

I guess someone at the Adver may need to do some number crunching on the actual number of votes to make any sense of this.

As an indication though, it does tend to suggest that the poll shows a slight maroity in support for a referendum and for an elected mayor, however the paper poll is still to be counted, so who knows?  :-\

Offline Geoff Reid

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Re: Adver 'Elected Mayors' Webchats
« Reply #21 on: October 17, 2008, 02:31:06 PM »
 
I think I'll view whatever results the adver poll produces as a snapshot of reader interest as of now.

Rod said in his adver webchat today:

Quote
If there is to be referendum at significant cost to the taxpayer then I and my colleagues have to be satisfied that there is demand for one. This has not been demonstrated as yet. I have no problem with a referendum but at present I see no call for it

We've been consistent in saying that a thorough debate must come well before we rush to a poll. This is why we're not rushing out gathering petition signatures as fast as possible.

Events in towns like Stoke and cities like Bristol give us a great opportunity to observe, learn and discuss. None of which will cost us council tax payers a penny  :)

As I replied to Rod:

Quote
Debate is free and costs us council tax payers nothing.

A thorough debate is essential before any voting is even considered.

Just as regenerating the town is examined, discussed and actioned over several years... so must the regeneration of faith in the political system.

Interest will grow Rod, it's very early days and too soon announce that there's no interest.

That mistake was already made in 2001.

Let's not make it again now.


In 2001 fools rushed in because they were afraid of where the electorate wanted to tread.  I'm satisfied that we are not only treading more responsibly than Bawden Bates and Evemy did, but we're also looking properly at the pros and cons of directly elected leaders and keeping open minds.


Let's see what happens over the next 12 months and see what the level of interest is then.






Offline komadori

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Re: Adver 'Elected Mayors' Webchats
« Reply #22 on: October 18, 2008, 05:07:01 PM »
The Adver are now saying they got a grand total of 125 votes, which they put down to voter apathy. Whilst not disagreeing with that, I can think of several other reasons that contributed to the Adver getting such a poor response.
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Offline Geoff Reid

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Re: Adver 'Elected Mayors' Webchats
« Reply #23 on: October 18, 2008, 09:02:29 PM »
 
I've had a wry chuckle.


The Adver are now saying they got a grand total of 125 votes, which they put down to voter apathy. Whilst not disagreeing with that, I can think of several other reasons that contributed to the Adver getting such a poor response.


Be interested to hear your opinion K.

Mine is:

The online poll went active a week early, attracted 120'ish votes in the few hours it was on before it was deactivated again. 

It then spent the entire week of he poll switched off, before being activated again on the morning of the last day for just a couple of hours....and was then switched off again  ;D

Can't comment on the paper poll as far as other people are concerned but: Tig saved two ballot papers for her and the boy, (I'd already voted online), they ticked the relevent boxes and were intending to post them after work on Friday....only to find that the poll had been closed at lunchtime. We must have missed the published end time......

Still, it was a bit of fun on the one hand and, whether or not they voted, it has hopefully served to further inform about 1/7th of the towns population.

I suppose it was inevitably going to be a little sensational/tabloid although James Wallin did a good job reporting the bits that weren't butchered by the editors.  The editors insistence on running a poll during a discussion was an odd decision and I can't help thinking that if I were an average Adver reader, (whatever that is when it's at home), I wouldn't wish to vote until I'd read all the articles and webchats, especially the last webchat with Rod Bluh.

Unfortunately the last webchat didn't actually begin until the poll was closed.......


There does seem to be a general urge to 'rush to judgement' though, which would worry me if a large amount of people had suddenly decided they wanted an elected Mayor soon, especially when Stoke and Bristol are going to provide us with a great opportunity to have a really good look.
 

Offline komadori

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Re: Adver 'Elected Mayors' Webchats
« Reply #24 on: October 19, 2008, 02:57:48 PM »
My views of why the Adver poll got so few votes are
  • As they said, most people are not interested in the discussion.
  • They made a hash of running the poll, opening it too early, closing it part way through the survey, then re-opening it again. I don't think it was closed all week, although on the 16th it was showing as having closed on the 10th, I recall looking between those dates and it being open.
  • They didn't link to the poll well. There were quite a few webpages on the debate that encouraged people to vote but provided no link.
  • If you consider the number of people that comment online on the Adver's stories, 125 responses is quite high. I know they used to get many more than that on their old website when they ran weekly polls, but those were much more visible, appearing on most news pages within the site.

The editors insistence on running a poll during a discussion was an odd decision and I can't help thinking that if I were an average Adver reader, (whatever that is when it's at home), I wouldn't wish to vote until I'd read all the articles and webchats, especially the last webchat with Rod Bluh.

I don't think there is anything odd about his decision. It enables them to capture views from those with only a passing interest in the topic, or who only visit the website occasionally, who wouldn't bother voting if forced to wait until the end. And those that do want to see all the debate can always wait until the...

Unfortunately the last webchat didn't actually begin until the poll was closed.......

end. Ho hum. ???
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Offline Buster

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Re: Adver 'Elected Mayors' Webchats
« Reply #25 on: October 19, 2008, 08:20:06 PM »
I think if anyne should be disappointed by the outcome of the poll, it's the editor of the Adver.  If I was running a daily paper in a large town like Swindon, I would hope that a week long campaign, covering various angles on the subject matter, could draw in greater interest.

Having said that, it may simply be down to a general lack of interest in the subect at the moment.   :-\

As for how the Adver ran the poll, I think they need to take a long hard look at themselves and who they have working for them.

The poll opened a week before it was advertised to start, then it was tucked away on a page that was two/three mouse clicks away from the home page, then they closed the poll, then they opened it again and then they closed it before perhaps one of the most influential people had finished with webchat.

It all seems too incompetent to be real to me.   :D

Offline Alex

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Re: Adver 'Elected Mayors' Webchats
« Reply #26 on: October 20, 2008, 09:20:34 AM »
Yep I agree- what a waste of time and energy- I tried to vote online only to find it was unavailable- and had no idea that it had re-opened. I bet lots of others were in the same boat.

Offline swindonlinkman

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Re: Adver 'Elected Mayors' Webchats
« Reply #27 on: October 21, 2008, 06:10:19 PM »
I'll second that. An utter cock-up. I couldn't believe that they announced the result of their campaign in Friday's edition, which also included a ballot form to be sent in. Indeed I delivered the 6 ballot forms I had filled in and had collected from friends on Saturday morning. A waste of time I know, but there was a small point to be made.

So, why did the Advertiser readers not respond? Can you help by adding one liners to the list below:
1. Nobody reads the Advertiser
2. The subject was too complex for Advertiser readers
3. People are satisfied with the way the council is currently being run
4. People are so cynical about changing anything, that they couldn't see the point of participating
5. People were too distracted by financial worries

Offline swindonlinkman

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Re: Adver 'Elected Mayors' Webchats
« Reply #28 on: October 21, 2008, 06:11:49 PM »
Karate King wants to be mayor of Swindon. See www.swindonlink.com



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Offline avtar

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Re: Adver 'Elected Mayors' Webchats
« Reply #29 on: November 28, 2008, 05:31:33 PM »
if elected mayors for cities are acceptable, why not elected Prime Ministers?

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/abolishMPs/

Offline Critique

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Re: Adver 'Elected Mayors' Webchats
« Reply #30 on: November 28, 2008, 06:33:28 PM »
Spell out why you want PMs elected.

Offline Alligator

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Re: Adver 'Elected Mayors' Webchats
« Reply #31 on: November 28, 2008, 06:47:05 PM »
if elected mayors for cities are acceptable, why not elected Prime Ministers?

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/abolishMPs/



Campaigns on either of these are not mutually exclusive.  The shortcomings in one level of government shouldn't be used as a justification for shortcomings at another level.

The link you posted doesn't give much detail of the arguments for a directly elected PM, or why the campaigners see the abolition of the houses of parliament as helping matters.  i.e. what would replace them?

I am inclined to agree with the people who initiated this campaign that party politics has damaged democracy in this country in a number of ways, however the campaign you have linked to doesn't really do itself any favours by failing to offer a full explanation of their aims and the desired alternative.

Perhaps this topic should have its own thread.

Offline Mart

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Re: Adver 'Elected Mayors' Webchats
« Reply #32 on: November 28, 2008, 09:15:34 PM »
G O R D O N B R O W N.

How's that for a coherent and ironclad argument?

In fact, now I dwell on it, I'd settle for a raffle, tombola, Camelot, darts at photos, rock paper scissors, X Factor, that poxy Jungle thing, or Willy Wonka's golden ticket.

Tell me how any of those methods have less credibility than the current bastardised, manipulated and right royally screwed up system.

Hands up everyone one who voted for a scotch troll as PM.
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Offline Geoff Reid

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Re: Adver 'Elected Mayors' Webchats
« Reply #33 on: November 28, 2008, 10:15:04 PM »
G O R D O N B R O W N.

How's that for a coherent and ironclad argument?

Didn't need to go any further than that imho  O0

Offline Buster

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Re: Adver 'Elected Mayors' Webchats
« Reply #34 on: November 29, 2008, 12:35:49 AM »
G O R D O N B R O W N.

How's that for a coherent and ironclad argument?


It's a good one, but what about J O H N M A J O R?  setting aside whether you like or dislike the individual, isn't this about the power, influence and prestige that being our PM brings in terms of representing each of us and who gets to decide on who is given this power, influence and prestige?

JM became PM without any electoral mandate and I highlight this to show that each party will play the rules to suit their own ends.  I don't support the imposition of any bod, simply 'cos they lead a big party, but all parties use and abuse the fact that this is what they can get away with when they see fit. 

I think that the current system is rotten and made so by political parties, but simply saying that we don't like the current model isn't enough, we need to say what will follow, otherwise what model are we asking people to vote on?

If parliament was full of free thinking, people focused, MPs. I think our world would be a different place.  Alas, it's not, it's full of people who think politics is about a career and a good pension.

A debate on our parliamentary system should be non party political as it's the parties that have got us all neck deep in the brown smelly stuff as it is.

What we need is good, honest decent, politicians who put their electorate and their own thoughts, values and opinions ahead of those of some back stage party political oaf who subscribes to a bible of party self interest.

All that said, any campaign to abolish the status quo does need to set out alternatives, afterall it ain't necessarily the model that's wrong, it's the people riding on the back of it that need to face the wrath of the voter.

Offline Mart

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Re: Adver 'Elected Mayors' Webchats
« Reply #35 on: November 29, 2008, 10:37:50 AM »
JM became PM without any electoral mandate and I highlight this to show that each party will play the rules to suit their own ends.  I don't support the imposition of any bod, simply 'cos they lead a big party, but all parties use and abuse the fact that this is what they can get away with when they see fit.

I agree, but I choose G O R D O N B R O W N because what he has succeeded in delivering is significantly more brown and smelly than anything JB could have ever dreamed of, additionally GB has cocooned himself in a seemingly impregnable bunker of law and order to extend his reign of ineptitude, aided by a gang of no accounts he is pleased to call ministers. These ministers are forever fixed in my mind as party apparatchiks (is that spelled right?) a la John La Carre, they do what is expedient to maintain their position, their influence and their power. The only way this imbalance can be resolved is by severing this aspect of the relationship between ministers and the prime minister. The present devaluer of a noble office had his chance to gain the electorates mandate, under the present system, he chose not to and that decision has forever characterised him as a self serving nob, in my personal view. At least JM had the nuts to eventually give the electorate the chance to comment. And he was cheaper.


What we need is good, honest decent, politicians who put their electorate and their own thoughts, values and opinions ahead of those of some back stage party political oaf who subscribes to a bible of party self interest.

I think the word I am looking for is oxymoron. While we are about it I would like world peace, hanging, more bobbies on the beat, national service for immigrants, a transparent and meaningful benefit system that delivers hope and nurtures aspiration rather than dependence, a few more aircraft carriers, British owned utility companies, a coherent 'green' policy, the Empire, C&A, an education system you don't need a qualification to understand, Wagon Wheels returned to their original size, a car industry, the decimation of NHS 'managers', an end to Ministers for departments with made up names, someone else to have the Olympics, an end to 42 years of hurt, railways stations in villages, a national pension policy, football on Saturdays only, more overtaking in Grand Prix, the banning of minority groups who concentrate on being 'shouty' in a militant way, an environment where the banning of such groups is not a disadvantage, the death penalty for 'authority' officials when pensioners and children die in an avoidable way on their patch, ministers with direct and relevant experience of the industries their departments run, a referendum on eu membership, a renegotiation of what a european trade partnership should deliver, another referendum to see if we want to rejoin shortly thereafter, peoples' peers people have heard of, a system of punitive measures for MP's who fail to accord to their electorates wishes, a hotel in London for MP's to live in, an end to the need to print official leaflets in 9 languages, religious tolerance that is meant, not legislated, council houses, restoration of hedgerows, closed shops on Sundays, cod in the North Sea and the banning of Christmas decorations until 14th December. That's just for now.

All that said, any campaign to abolish the status quo does need to set out alternatives, afterall it ain't necessarily the model that's wrong, it's the people riding on the back of it that need to face the wrath of the voter.

Anti terror legislation means no minister will ever face any wrath other than that of the Whip, the model is quite possibly beyond economical repair and these people are not riding on the back of it, they infest it like a virulent form of bindweed, and like bindweed, they obscure and strangle.

Canton style thingummys and Direct Democracy read very well as an alternative.
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Re: Adver 'Elected Mayors' Webchats
« Reply #36 on: September 05, 2009, 09:46:42 AM »
What is the current state of play over this.

Offline Chav

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Re: Adver 'Elected Mayors' Webchats
« Reply #37 on: January 25, 2010, 06:16:13 PM »
Hi All

I just see on the news something about Bristol having a directly elected Mayor !
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Offline Geoff Reid

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Re: Adver 'Elected Mayors' Webchats
« Reply #38 on: January 25, 2010, 08:19:44 PM »

Typical. I can't news from the 'West' region because the digital signal from the Mendip transmitter is so low. I have to watch 'South' from the Oxford transmitter.

In March '10 the mendip transmitter ups its output from 9,000 watts to 100,000 watts so I'll be forcing the Mellon onto the roof to turn the aerial around again!

Offline Steve Wakefield

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Re: Adver 'Elected Mayors' Webchats
« Reply #39 on: January 25, 2010, 08:22:03 PM »
Chav

Bristol

Is Lib Dem so they have always favoured the role. Anyway for what its worth read this:http://www.nlgn.org.uk/public/2010/new-model-mayors-democray-devolution-and-direction/
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