Author Topic: Another Muslim Mosque Required for Swindon  (Read 11428 times)

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Offline Bobby Bingo

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Another Muslim Mosque Required for Swindon
« on: September 02, 2007, 12:02:41 PM »
On the television recently it showed you Muslims having to pray on the pavement in Broad Street Swindon because their Mosque is too small.
They stated that they would like Swindon Borough Council to provide them with a larger building.
When the Sikh community wanted a temple in Swindon they approached the council for some land and this was SOLD to them at a discounted price after the council had sought permission to do so from the Secretary of State.
One stipulation was that a community centre also had to be built and be available for the whole of the community.
The Sikh community then raised ALL of the necessary funding, which was in excess of £2 million, themselves.
I trust the council will operate in the same way with the Muslin community.


Bobby

Offline Keith

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Re: Another Muslim Mosque Required for Swindon
« Reply #1 on: September 02, 2007, 11:11:22 PM »
A friend of mine is a regular attendee for Friday prayers at the Mosque. He said they were putting in a second floor to solve the overcrowding and that this had been planned for a number of years after a lot of fundraising.
The Adver didn't mention this, possibly because they weren't told.

My friend had never heard of these plans for a new sight.

Offline Bobby Bingo

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Re: Another Muslim Mosque Required for Swindon
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2007, 08:47:38 AM »
Keith
Perhaps your friend is not party to the inner workings of the leaders of the Mosque.
I saw the plans layed out for inspection on the television on friday night.
They were for a new building. But as a councillor will you commit to at least the same arrangements as were made for the Sihk Temple.
Bobby

Offline kecl

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Re: Another Muslim Mosque Required for Swindon
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2007, 11:13:39 AM »
A friend of mine is a regular attendee for Friday prayers at the Mosque. He said they were putting in a second floor to solve the overcrowding and that this had been planned for a number of years after a lot of fundraising.
The Adver didn't mention this, possibly because they weren't told.

There has been talk of a second floor being added to this building, in fact Azim Khan told me this himself, however no planning permission has been put in as yet.

If a second floor is the way the Thamesdown Islamic Association intend to proceed, I do wonder why they applied and got planning permission only last year to erect a new pitched roof to replace the existing flat roof at the back of the mosque, and are just finishing the building of a new porch to store shoes in.

The fact is, they do not have enough room for the number of worshippers that currently use the Mosque on a Friday and using the public path is an inconvenience to both worshippers and pedestrians alike.

I'm not sure if the building could take a second floor without some major underpinning as it is around 100 years old, but i'm not a structural engineer.

No off road parking is also a serious problem for the Mosque, many of the worshippers are not from the Broadgreen area and therefore have to drive. Unfortunately the area around the Mosque is a residents parking zone, which forces people to park illegally every Friday afternoon, often causing problems for residents.

If they have the funding, I am sure the best way forward for all would be a bigger purpose built Mosque. Let's hope the problems can be solved amicably.







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Offline Geoff Reid

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Re: Another Muslim Mosque Required for Swindon
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2007, 05:54:27 PM »
One stipulation was that a community centre also had to be built and be available for the whole of the community.
The Sikh community then raised ALL of the necessary funding, which was in excess of £2 million, themselves.
I trust the council will operate in the same way with the Muslin community.

Surely SBC, and the wider community should view, and discuss, each and every planning application fairly and dispassionately, and without any regard for ethnicity or religious standpoint?.

If there's any serious suggestion that land might be 'gifted', then I want some too.

I've long fancied setting up an off-road motorsports centre which is properly open to the community at large.....

Offline Chav

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Re: Another Muslim Mosque Required for Swindon
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2007, 06:10:53 PM »
Hi Bobby
I think that all faith groups should be treated equitably and fairly, therefore to mention two faiths in the posting this way may appear to some to be placing one needs of one faith group above that of the other(s).  I did not know about the Gorsehill project so it was good to find out about it in print (TS) from someone in the community who is obviously as well informed as you appear to be. Do you pray at either facility or are you of another faith? ( just personal curiosity) If you do use the facilities or live in the ward; then perhaps you would like to meet with the local councillors or with that Rod Bluh bloke at the Council to  discuss this matter further, I am sure the points you have raised are very honourable,valid and sincere I know that Rod is bound to listen to you, as he is such a nice bloke. Personally I thank you for informing me about facts I was not aware of.
It is good to see that someone is out to promote the "spiritual" and "faith" community in Swindon, it makes a change from hearing about the material advantages of living in Swindon. I mean this when I say it I know that the Tag Line for the council is the "Swindon the Best Business Location" as the knock on from this is a sustainable community. I do hope there will be an upturn in  Spirituality and faith as well. Don't you?

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Offline Bobby Bingo

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Re: Another Muslim Mosque Required for Swindon
« Reply #6 on: September 04, 2007, 09:07:34 AM »
Chav
My faith is Church of England but suffice to say in a former life I was actively engaged with the Sikh Temple project.
Hence my having a good knowledge of the proceedings etc.
Bobby

Offline Alan Hayward

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Re: Another Muslim Mosque Required for Swindon
« Reply #7 on: September 08, 2007, 12:40:16 AM »
This country has gone mad.
'Twas brillig and the slithy toves did gyre and gimbal in the wabe

Offline Mart

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Re: Another Muslim Mosque Required for Swindon
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2007, 09:17:29 PM »
Is everybody thinking.......

I dunno, I'm a bit twitchy about immigration and Johnny Foreigner coming over here and lording it about, but fair do's we are English and we are famous for our tolerance and inclusion, so ok, I suppose.

I suppose that this language test thingy will help weed out the chancers, except the EU ones, who are quite possibly the biggest chancers of the lot, but that's another story.

Anyway Mosques, , I think they make me uncomfortable because they are overtly foreign, most of your North European faiths worship in broadly similar looking buildings and they do not stand out to the european eye, , a mosque with a norman tower, mebbes that could work.

I am vaguely aware that an extended mosque makes at least one of my eyebrows raise, but I need guidance on whether I am an architectural snob, a religious bigot, ashamed of the C of E shrinkage. I feel guilty that it catches my attention, but am perturbed cos I don't know why.
Sometimes I think you have to march right in and demand your rights, even if you don’t know what your rights are, or who the person is you’re talking to. Then, on the way out, slam the door.

Offline Alan Hayward

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Re: Another Muslim Mosque Required for Swindon
« Reply #9 on: September 16, 2007, 12:47:47 AM »
Is everybody thinking.......

I dunno, I'm a bit twitchy about immigration and Johnny Foreigner coming over here and lording it about, but fair do's we are English and we are famous for our tolerance and inclusion, so ok, I suppose.

I suppose that this language test thingy will help weed out the chancers, except the EU ones, who are quite possibly the biggest chancers of the lot, but that's another story.

Anyway Mosques, , I think they make me uncomfortable because they are overtly foreign, most of your North European faiths worship in broadly similar looking buildings and they do not stand out to the european eye, , a mosque with a norman tower, mebbes that could work.

I am vaguely aware that an extended mosque makes at least one of my eyebrows raise, but I need guidance on whether I am an architectural snob, a religious bigot, ashamed of the C of E shrinkage. I feel guilty that it catches my attention, but am perturbed cos I don't know why.

They are wrong because they are anti-integration.

They are a statement that their members will hang on to their beliefs without regard for the country that they have moved to.

I don't give a monkey's about who has moved here (although I think perhaps we all should), rather more that they should want to be part of the society and culture that exists already.

Take me outside and shoot me, I'm obviously not being inclusive and far too simplistic to understand our "multicultural" society.
'Twas brillig and the slithy toves did gyre and gimbal in the wabe

Offline kecl

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Re: Another Muslim Mosque Required for Swindon
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2008, 05:35:16 PM »
According to yesterday's Adver (26 August '08), SBC will not be allowing a Mosque to be built on council owned land at the North Star roundabout.
http://www.swindonadvertiser.co.uk/news/3620170.Mosque_plan_put_on_hold/

It seems the second floor that has been built on the Broad St. mosque is infact a mezzanine floor in the roof space, which one assumes does not require planning permission as none has been applied for or given. It must be rather cramped up there though!

Mr Khan, refering to SBC said:

Quote

“We feel let down, as we have a very big population.

“We look after everybody and we get no support.

“They even do not invite us to discuss the problem after we have written several letters.

“We are very disappointed.”


Not sure what support Mr Khan doesn't feel they get, as last year when the Thamesdown Islamic Association approached the Council for a much needed  building for social events they were offered, but turned down the building at Sparcells, the one that unfortunately burnt down back in June. A building which I am sure lots of other minority Associations would have jumped at if they had the chance of using it themselves.


One other point, according to the report, the Muslim community is 3000 strong and to quote Mr Khan again
Quote
The number of people coming to the mosque is increasing day by day. The community’s population continues to grow as people from Afghanistan, Iraq, and Somalia move to the town.

But the designs for a new mosque will only accomodate 3000 people! May be someone should go and redo the maths again or if they do manage to build a new mosque somewhere, they are going to find themselves praying outside again ;)
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Offline Mart

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Re: Another Muslim Mosque Required for Swindon
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2008, 09:51:33 PM »
I'm not meself tonight.

I reckon they should build one or two mega churches, they will be multi wossname, you know where religions mix it up a bit, all very PC. The religiously inclined, who feel it is a group sport that has to be celebrated in specific buildings, in specific locations, at specific times, on specific days cos god has a schedule though he/she is omnipresent in most examples, can mix it up a bit and smile politely to each other, (or strap semtex to themselves and detonate, I don't care as long as they do it at a save distance from me and mine), they will smile at each other all the time they continue to occupy this mortal coil, then come judgement day they can smile at each other in a smug way as they realise they backed the right deity, or not, obviously. Then forgive and forget and everything will be ok, and everyone's sins will be washed away. There is even a chance interest rates will be reduced.

Then flatten the rest, every scrap of it, if it's got a spire, minaret or dome treat it like swindon town centre and trash it, sod heritage, Norman church? Flatten it, it's not inclusive enough, Saxon, even worse, years of inbred non inclusive anti diversity.

When we find out what flavour god really is, we can rebrand the remaining buildings designated for religious activities in the name of the true god and some of the population can rip the p*ss out of the rest cos they made a lucky guess, but of course they wil be too pious and inclusive to do so.

If you are devout and believe in your god of choice what relevance have your architectural surroundings got to do with it?

You emigrate to Western Europe because, presumably, you find the climate, people, economy, culture etc etc attractive, you already know that your religion is quite rightly tolerated, but that doesn't mean that there will be a mosque, synagogue, or what bloody ever on each corner. I would not expect to emigrate to Dubai and have a Threshers and a Saxon church of architectural interest on every corner.

Changing the skyline so the churches have roundy roundy steeples instead of square ones will make sod all difference to your god's regard of you, assuming you ave chosen the right one, but it will hack off the indigineous population of your chosen country.

Oh blimey, is it only me?
Sometimes I think you have to march right in and demand your rights, even if you don’t know what your rights are, or who the person is you’re talking to. Then, on the way out, slam the door.

Offline Tobes

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Re: Another Muslim Mosque Required for Swindon
« Reply #12 on: August 27, 2008, 10:10:39 PM »
Sorry - I don't think council or rate payer funded cash or subsidy should be provided for ANY purpose built housing for superstitious rites and ravings (christian, hindu, muslim or sikh) unless the building is of historical or architechtural interest or value.

My view would be - Pray to whatever cult of unreason you or any other group wishes - but don't expect me to fund or subsidise it. If Your God exists, perhaps he'll provide if you pray hard enough - or failing that (as if!), you and your communities can dip into your own wallets.
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - [attributed to] Voltaire... 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita' - William of Occam.... 'You have a right to feel offended, but just cos you are offended doesn't mean you are right'

Offline Mart

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Re: Another Muslim Mosque Required for Swindon
« Reply #13 on: August 27, 2008, 10:27:02 PM »
Nearly with you, but;

You cannot reasonably expect to build overt religious edifices that are not intrinsic to your home country, of choice, that you picked from the whole wide world, no matter how deep your pockets are, if you can afford to build a towering cathedral to your mythical deity (possibly, you could be right) then buy your own country to do it in. We have a prevailing religion and we have burned, tortured, persecuted, excluded and been jolly nasty to millions of people to earn our right to enjoy it, except we don't , we would sooner watch the Grand Prix or the football on Setanta, but that does not mean that any other religion has the right to fill the void in a matter of decades. Do your bloody apprenticeship over a thousand years or two.

You treat your home of choice with respect, if it is not to your taste the pick another one.

If this one is not inclusive or diverse enough for your taste then, mmm, bugger off.

If I this makes me Nazi xenephobe then again, you can kiss my arse. Though I fear you may well have to join a queue.

This is England, it is part of Great Britain, look at the CIA web thingy, it will explain to you what we are like
Sometimes I think you have to march right in and demand your rights, even if you don’t know what your rights are, or who the person is you’re talking to. Then, on the way out, slam the door.

Offline Tobes

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Re: Another Muslim Mosque Required for Swindon
« Reply #14 on: August 27, 2008, 10:40:10 PM »
Quote
We have a prevailing religion and we have burned, tortured, persecuted, excluded and been jolly nasty to millions of people to earn our right to enjoy it, except we don't , we would sooner watch the Grand Prix or the football on Setanta, but that does not mean that any other religion has the right to fill the void in a matter of decades.

Since when has Christianity been an indigenous religion? I seem to recollect a wave of imigrants bringing it over with them a mere 1500 years ago...?

I think we need to subsidise more Henge building!!!
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - [attributed to] Voltaire... 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita' - William of Occam.... 'You have a right to feel offended, but just cos you are offended doesn't mean you are right'

Offline Mart

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Re: Another Muslim Mosque Required for Swindon
« Reply #15 on: August 27, 2008, 10:47:42 PM »
Yeah, but they just replaced the druids who were predominantly welsh.

Doesn't count.

We have a long line of honoured monarchs who we have sworn allegiance to (well, I have, but I can only swear in german and can barely say thank you in greek, so they probably didn't quite understand me) who say C of E is the safe bet if heavenly salvation is your goal.

The queen is the queen of Great Britain (not mandelson, har de har) and we is born to serve her and her uninspiring offspring, she is guvnor of the church, it's a no brainer. Blind obedience is much less strain than angst.

It's shit, but it's our shit so I take exception to it being displaced, by relative johnny come lately types.

It makes no sense, but there is no requirement for it to do so.
Sometimes I think you have to march right in and demand your rights, even if you don’t know what your rights are, or who the person is you’re talking to. Then, on the way out, slam the door.

Offline Tobes

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Re: Another Muslim Mosque Required for Swindon
« Reply #16 on: August 27, 2008, 10:55:53 PM »
Quote
Yeah, but they just replaced the druids who were predominantly welsh.

tsk tsk! BECAME Welsh when the celts were pushed out of England... Thus we were spared the horrors of Eisttedford. Ok, the importation of christianity wasn't ALL bad news.

Quote
We have a long line of honoured monarchs who we have sworn allegiance to (well, I have, but I can only swear in german and can barely say thank you in greek, so they probably didn't quite understand me) who say C of E is the safe bet if heavenly salvation is your goal.

The imported beliefs if syphyllitic French and Germans! (as for the touch of 'Greek' cultural practices, you might be straying back on to the other thread! ;) )

Quote
It makes no sense, but there is no requirement for it to do so.

It is religion. Quod erat demonstrandum  :angel:
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - [attributed to] Voltaire... 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita' - William of Occam.... 'You have a right to feel offended, but just cos you are offended doesn't mean you are right'

Offline Mart

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Re: Another Muslim Mosque Required for Swindon
« Reply #17 on: August 27, 2008, 11:37:58 PM »
To summarise.

Another Muslim Mosque required in Swindon.

I agree. Emphatically.

After every council house is up to required specification.

When the police are reassuringly visible, that is full time employed police officers, not the second, third or indeed fourth line of defence, and that said visible upholders of the law do not look even vaguely like Robocop.

When potholes stop being painted, but filled.

When we have an elected mayor

When we have a council whose sole and exclusive allegiance is to Swindon, full bloody stop.

When our elected MP's possess a brain of their own, shared is acceptable.

When every pensioner has social activities aplenty to choose from, and transport to take them there.

When the kids have something to do in the holidays, even if it does have to be a f*cking skatepark.

When waste collection schedules reflect the needs of the residents not the demands of some poxy belgian clerk

When all mention of a canal has been expurgated from all records

When that poxy 9 mile LCD screen has been removed

When the quota of pigeons, coffee bars and idiots in Swindon has been reduced to acceptable levels (there's an obscure song reference there)

When we are assured councillors cannot sod off for six months without anybody noticing

When Swindon town centre stands taller than knee high

When local government takes absolutely no friggin notice, at all, of any idea, law or whim that did not originate this side of the channel

When Swindon win the Champions League

When residents parking is sorted out to the satisfaction of the RESIDENTS!!!!

When a new library in town does not cost half a dozen in outlying areas

When graveyards and churches can be left open overnight cos the liitle shites that vandalise them are all on mine clearance duties in Afghanistan, in very heavy boots made of extremely conductive metal

When showing your underpants in public means your knob will be cut off with a hammer

When wearing a baseball cap means you are put in public stocks while passers by are encouraged to throw baseballs at you

When council tax is reduced by 90%

When schools plead, 'Oooh, please no more books or teachers, we don't know what to do with them all'

When the fire brigade (call it what you like, it is still the fire brigade, they are still firemen) have an appliance (a Dennis, obviously) for each fireman

When there is an ambulance on every street corner, and a hospital no more than 3 miles away

When benefit dependency is an interesting anomaly applicable only to the dead

When gobbing in public means that you have to eat shit, then you have an excuse to gob, but of course then you will then have to eat shit

When English is the only language that sbc prints leaflets in, Tourist Board lietrature in 9 languages is fine, council documentation, well no. At least make a token effort eah?

When being proud to be British s not a government initiative, I use the word initiative loosely.

When politicians are in their rightful place.

Well, when all that is ticked off I believe we can give our full support to another mosque.
Sometimes I think you have to march right in and demand your rights, even if you don’t know what your rights are, or who the person is you’re talking to. Then, on the way out, slam the door.

Offline jomeggs

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Re: Another Muslim Mosque Required for Swindon
« Reply #18 on: August 28, 2008, 04:46:10 PM »
And what's about a Thuringian bratwurst stand for me?  ;D ;D ;D

Offline Mart

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Re: Another Muslim Mosque Required for Swindon
« Reply #19 on: August 28, 2008, 06:22:33 PM »
Thuringian, isn't that those little plastic figures that come with their own castle?

I am presently cooking myself bratwurst, I may have them with mustard, or I may make myself a bit ill by going currywurst style, gallon of ketchup slathering of curry powder. I have sauerkraut also. Revolting habits I picked up in euroland, along with mayo on me chips. I also have the odd frikadelle, cold with mustard, English, so that me eyes water properly.
OK, you've talked me into it, a bratwurst stand, I reckon it could actually do quite well. Arrange a lottery grant immediately and never accuse me of being anti europe again.
But, under no bloody circumstances, any of that warmed up wine. A ten pack of Herforder would do nicely though.
Anyway, enough frivolity, what's your take on this, the eu and how do our civil servants measure up to yours?

Don't be afraid to speak your mind.
Sometimes I think you have to march right in and demand your rights, even if you don’t know what your rights are, or who the person is you’re talking to. Then, on the way out, slam the door.