Author Topic: RP Paper Finally in Public Domain!  (Read 16143 times)

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Peach

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Re: RP Paper Finally in Public Domain!
« Reply #40 on: July 31, 2007, 08:10:53 AM »
So in summary - the results of the survey are: we'll form a committee to make some recommendations?

I thought the survey was about listening to the voice of public opinion and acting upon it. 

Offline Tobes

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Re: RP Paper Finally in Public Domain!
« Reply #41 on: July 31, 2007, 09:46:06 AM »
I haven't weighed into this one coz I've been off on hols enjoying Belgian beer and making things out of cast iron (not a statement you'll often hear!)

Wow. This thread is exploding in all sorts of directions. Well, news so far would appear to be a bit of a 'curates egg' - ie, "good in parts". On the plus side we can see that the council have engaged - and that some important positive moves have been taken to, if not solve, at least partly mitigate the existing problems and at least (hopefully!) stop them from getting worse. As Jim and others have observed however, a trick has been missed in making the process more inclusive by sharing that data with the rest of us (ie the ones actually directly involved - and who's vociferous campaigning presumably was at least partly resposible for getting this ball rolling). The last niggle is of course the sheer length of time its taken to get to this point - and my own personal surprise that it took the hiring of Halcrow to make conclusions which half a dozen residents having a pint down The Beehive could probably have come up with in about half an hour. Perhaps if the original parking consultation had been properly designed, the correct conclusions could have been drawn without the delays and angst? Still, 20-20 vision, hindsight and all of that. We are we we are, as they say, and at least the future looks a lot brighter for us.

I guess now, its time for a bit of a revue of how we got here and look at who did what...

Dave - its good to see you back and involved, but I've got to say, quite what your agenda is, confuses the life out of me. You know I've argued for you to be involved and engaged - not just because you're one of my local elected representatives, but also because its important to see the different shades of the political spectrum on the issue. I have to say though that I can only echo the comments of some of the others: You've been strident in the way you've dealt with criticism, to the extent of leaving the forum for a time - and now to returning as 'Dave' rather than Dave Woods the councillor. The irony is of course that you've then gone on to feed comments into an issue which effects your ward and elctorate using information and knowledge you gleaned as a councillor. I don't see how you can square that. I can't help wondering what anyone thinks regarding how they might conduct themselves in a conversation when they have been elected into PUBLIC office. You were! thats means your name is on the SBC website, was in the Adver, on the local news, is on the LibDems website, etc etc: WE know who you are. You can't say that you're NOT commenting as Dave the Councillor - it's your job - not one that as far as I'm aware, only applies 9 to 5. THIS is a public forum where debate is open. Selectivity in your communication and presentation of facts will only frustrate the people you're talking with - or have them questioning your motives. There's such a thing as the 'sef-fulfilling prophesy' - people who think that everyone's out to get them behave in such a way that it frequently comes true!

Still, lets all hope the summary of all of this good news - and I'd like to extend my thanks once again to ALL of the councillors who've taken the opportunity to share their thoughts on this issue. As time goes by, I'm becoming evermore evangalistic that TS represents a real chance for people within the community to engage with the people they elected. They in turn have a real chance to share ideas with the people who elected them and to have a rpoper in-depth debate. Those who dimiss the contributions of 'the few' members of the public who post their opinions here do so at their peril. Lets just look at my case. I had not met a single one of my local councillors in over five years of living within swindon. I've never been door-stepped. Never met them down the pub, never previously been able to share a thought or ask a question in a public rather than private capacity. Now i can. Not only that, the advantages for both me AND the local politicians is to be able to see whether I'm just some lone voice - OR if the effects of the sweep of a committees pen has a real negative effect upon the interests of the electorate. This is the 'connected age' - as thr Admin has already mentioned, TS have massive engagement from 'silent' visitors. Who are these people? They're the electorate! When communities are so fractured that you'll never ordinarily engage with your local politicians and councillors outside of election time, TS represents the only viable opportunity to reverse the ever increasing sense of disillusionment with the political process. As a result (and although things are far from fully resolved!) I think we all ought to take a little bit of pride regarding how this process, flawed as its been, has gone. Ideas have been exchanged and listened to - positions and understanding has evolved, everyone will benefit at least to some extent. I honestly believe that we're blazing a trail here for the way in which similar issues ought (and will) be addressed in the future...
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - [attributed to] Voltaire... 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita' - William of Occam.... 'You have a right to feel offended, but just cos you are offended doesn't mean you are right'

Offline DaveWood

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Re: RP Paper Finally in Public Domain!
« Reply #42 on: July 31, 2007, 04:21:54 PM »

From what I have seen been quite impressed with Dave as my ward councillor we get the occassional update newsletter (and liked the fact that encouraged feedback on which issues we want him to concentrate on.) He does seems quite dilligent in trying to get things and appreciate his feedback and input to this forum.

We'll agree to disagree on our respective levels of satisfaction with Mr/Cllr Woods performance  :)

Thanks for your kind words, Concerned.  Whilst I could never expect more than 50:50 support from my own residents it is good to know the my residents here approve of some of the things I do some of the time. 
It doesn't bother me how non-residents see me they, after all, only see one side of the story.  Mainly derived from my comments here, which I haven't always expressed as well as I could have.

Offline DaveWood

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Re: RP Paper Finally in Public Domain!
« Reply #43 on: July 31, 2007, 04:24:01 PM »
Quote
I do not, and will not, make it my business to engage with biased, er, people who spout nonsense.

This must make local politics quite a lonely experience...

James


Yes and no! I have my party and my residents, both of whom are fantastic.  It's rare that I bother with people from other political persuasions, with a few exceptions of opposition people for whom I do have great respect or some liking.

Offline DaveWood

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Re: RP Paper Finally in Public Domain!
« Reply #44 on: July 31, 2007, 04:26:24 PM »
So in summary - the results of the survey are: we'll form a committee to make some recommendations?

I thought the survey was about listening to the voice of public opinion and acting upon it. 

Well... I wasn't going to be the one to say it.  I don't want to jump down the throats of the administration too much.  They are trying, at least, which is much more than can be said of the administration even a couple of years ago.

I did insist several times that this report should not be portrayed as deferring it to a future, unformed body.  I do have great confidence in the potential of the future, unformed body but I did ask and ask again for targeted DEADLINES for all the recommendations.  However, the final report didn't include them  :-X

Offline DaveWood

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Re: RP Paper Finally in Public Domain!
« Reply #45 on: July 31, 2007, 04:28:48 PM »
Much as I've enjoyed reading the other posts, I'd still quite like to know the answer to this one...

Quote
Do you know when the advisory groups first set of recommendations are be expected to be delivered?

James


James

I have asked the question.  If it's not well before the end of this month I'd be sorely disappointed.

Offline DaveWood

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Re: RP Paper Finally in Public Domain!
« Reply #46 on: July 31, 2007, 04:34:10 PM »
Davey boy, just been catching up and I do believe you are having a pop back, well that is encouraging.

I accept you are not accountable to a this forum, though it is where you first came onto my radar as it were, but I am one of 'your' residents, and I ramble on his forum. I can behave like a bit of a tosser in any medium but the distinction you make between the communication methods is too fine for me. The comment about the support from the Tory, tell me you don't have whingeing sessions about how ungrateful the electorate are?

I fear you are going native and that would confirm my belief that most politicians, regardless of station or party, are fundamentally the same.

Actually... I wasn't referring to you! I said I wouldn't engage with such people (wouldn't reply to them) and then the first thing I did was reply to you :)

Funnilly enough if you're the emailer I remember from the 2006 campaign I wouldn't say you acted like the T word.  In fact your individual contributions were much valued in several quarters.

On the point of the Tory.  T'was not support.  He was having a bit of a pop ;) But the point was well made.

I fear you are going native and that would confirm my belief that most politicians, regardless of station or party, are fundamentally the same.

I think some of the natives might chuckle if they saw that :) I didn't even go native when I was a local authority employee, I'm certainly not going to start now ;)

Offline DaveWood

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Re: RP Paper Finally in Public Domain!
« Reply #47 on: July 31, 2007, 04:41:52 PM »
As Jim and others have observed however, a trick has been missed in making the process more inclusive by sharing that data with the rest of us (ie the ones actually directly involved - and who's vociferous campaigning presumably was at least partly resposible for getting this ball rolling).
The last niggle is of course the sheer length of time its taken to get to this point - and my own personal surprise that it took the hiring of Halcrow to make conclusions which half a dozen residents having a pint down The Beehive could probably have come up with in about half an hour.

Glad to hear you had a good time, Tobes.

There was an appendix missing for the RP results.  I still haven't been given a straight answer on whether we're OK to share it now.  I have a nasty suspicion this won't be resolved until the first RP meeting.

I'm on board with you about the time taken.  It's been recommended that I don't bite the hand that feeds by flaunting my view on this to them, but my views will out shortly.

Dave - its good to see you back and involved, but I've got to say, quite what your agenda is, confuses the life out of me. You know I've argued for you to be involved and engaged - not just because you're one of my local elected representatives, but also because its important to see the different shades of the political spectrum on the issue. I have to say though that I can only echo the comments of some of the others: You've been strident in the way you've dealt with criticism, to the extent of leaving the forum for a time - and now to returning as 'Dave' rather than Dave Woods the councillor.

Good point well made.  Others have tried and not quite got there. 

To clear up the misunderstanding here: on this forum I want to be (more or less) free to speak my mind.  If I am tagged as, effectively, speaking on behalf of SBC in everything I say here I cannot express myself for fear of action being taken against me.  It does happen.

People know I'm a councillor, yes, and I speak of council business.  But there's a difference between this and being a 'marked' spokesperson of the borough.  I hope you appreciate the difference.  But do let me know if you want further clarification.

Offline Dale Heenan

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Re: RP Paper Finally in Public Domain!
« Reply #48 on: July 31, 2007, 05:51:29 PM »
Much as I've enjoyed reading the other posts, I'd still quite like to know the answer to this one...
Quote
Do you know when the advisory groups first set of recommendations are be expected to be delivered?
James
James
A couple of dates have been pencilled in for the first meeting, and I gather it's mainly down to member availability. I suspect it will be about 4 weeks and towards the end of August.

The 2 recommendations which reflect Planning in the Cabinet report are going to the Planning Committee on August 14th as the future policy...

Offline James

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Re: RP Paper Finally in Public Domain!
« Reply #49 on: July 31, 2007, 06:33:13 PM »
I may sound picky, but I don't really care when the meetings are.
I am only really interested in the output.
When should we expect to see the RESULTS of the advisory groups first set of recommendations actually delivered.


And if we miss that date, who (on the council - head of transport, some council officer?) is going to be held responsible.
My guess is that the residents will suddenly become responsible for the failure to deliver change.

I echo Tobes comment about the report btw. A couple of hours trawling the internet could have provided much of the content.

As I have said, the big miss for me is the complete lack of measurement of demand. Without which none of the recommendations can be measured for success. Measurement of success and failure are vital to ensure that our money is spent in the best way, yet we don't have the basic information to even begin to do that.

The reasons for opening this can of worms were a bit blurry, and ill-defined in the first place. Boiling down to some residents thinking parking was a bit of a problem, especially those pesky visitor books. Lack of measurement of that original problem, means we won't know when (or even if) the original issues will have been addressed by any part of this.

James

Offline Mart

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Re: RP Paper Finally in Public Domain!
« Reply #50 on: August 02, 2007, 07:05:09 PM »
Dave

Nothing personal, at least you respond, unless something's popped in recently there is sweet fanny adams on the, possibly, next big thing refuse collection.

When you think of all the bright young, and not so young, things who were ready to strike a pose at the outset you tend to wonder where they went to, more pressing matters, or a lack of mental stamina allied to a short attention span, an unfulfilled need for a camera flash and printed quote?

I have nothing new to add really, ditto on the fact it was churned out by consultants and contained an alarming amount of, what I thought, was padding, but I don't know if the teenage pregnancy rates are some sort of obligatory inclusion, or to produce a document so forbidding it put people off perusing it too closely.

I still have my space dimensions hobby horse, I genuinely think we are missing a trick, especially with bay markings, or even markers dobbed on the kerb, measure and manage the resource.

Finally, if I say I am a tosser then I am, it is my human right to be one and I may have grounds for suing, hopefully, car tax due.

Sometimes I think you have to march right in and demand your rights, even if you don’t know what your rights are, or who the person is you’re talking to. Then, on the way out, slam the door.