Topic: Grand Designs On Swindon

[Steve Wakefield]

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Hi Geoff
Kevin McCloud of Grand Designs (Channel 4) Fame is going to build 400 houses in Swindon in a new innovative, yet traditional communal way. He wants to bring back the feeling of streets and community as experienced both rurally and within towns 50 years ago, and still by some today. I am pleased for Swindon that this is happening, some of these houses will be on the Whicelstowe development.

Having Kevin and his partners commit to Swindon in the face of competition from other locations in this country, is good news for future development here. The negotiations for this started in October/November 2006, when Kevin came along and spoke with the Leader of the Council Rod Bluh, Cllr Peter Greenhalghs and other members of the Cabinet. It was good to meet with Kevin, who is genuinely committed to the project and I believe he along with Rod and Peter achieve the outcomes in respect of "village Life" within Whichelstowe. There will be individual house design and it will be very different to what we usually see anywhere in this country today. The aim is to have energy efficient homes using some  new building materials .

Kevin, Rod and Peter, want to see a whole community involved in the design and building of this Grand Design and it will be shown on Channel 4 as it progresses. I am sure that this will be an opportunity for a showcase for Swindon.

I hope that TS will play its part in this exciting and innovative opportunity to do something different from the usual 3 bed semi detached, that builders seem so fond of building for home buyers today. This is a big challenge for the Council's planning department and could possibly challenge the governments "space standards" which I am not going to into here, but hope that other more competent people will contribute to this thread and give more technical information as this project progresses.

Oh by the way Kevin has a really interesting ringtone on his phone the sound of a Massey Ferguson Tractor starting up... Now how different is that! I would like to wish Kevin well in this new challenging endevour in building for a sustainable and inclusive future for house building in Swindon.

[Jean]

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It worries me that Kevin McCloud tends to go into raptures about houses that are square boxes with massive windows on Grand Design whilst he clearly doesn't like genuine eco-houses. 

That being said, it doesn't take much to build to higher energy saving standards than the Building Regs allow and I do hope that he looks at incorporating water recycling and renewable energy provision in the homes and community.

I wish him well.  Anything is better than that on offer from the national house builders.

[Mart]

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That's not strictly true.

He has a soft spot for green oak frames and straw walls, he has featured a good few of these over the series. He is quite a fan of kit timber houses as well, I can recall a couple of these.

Italian castle was another, and that effort by the bloke who lived in the woods, my favourite.

He is generally quite cautious about the boxy, cutting edge, architect design exercise style places, especially if they are being integrated into an established environment.

I can't speak for him but I think he is keen to see something that adds and compliments it's setting, not big 'look at me, look at me' places.

I am quite a fan and will cheerfully watch re-runs and then go and stare vaguely at our house, green oak barn would get my dosh.

I am really keen to see how he can influence a development of this size, I may erect a shrine if he cracks it.

[Geoff Reid]

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It worries me that Kevin McCloud tends to go into raptures about houses that are square boxes with massive windows on Grand Design whilst he clearly doesn't like genuine eco-houses. 

Hmmm, was there ever any realistic hope that 'genuine' eco-houses would be built in the numbers that Swindon has been ordered to build?.

What is a 'genuine' eco house anyway, and would people wish to buy/live in them?.

I, for example, would quite happily purchase a house which was built using mostly sustainable materials, in an environmentally sensible fashion, which is cheaper to heat, light and flush than my current 15 year old Barratt/Wimpey/Whatever house.

But.....I admit to having absolutely zero interest in shovelling/burning my own dung, fishing dead pidgeons out of my gray water toilet flushing system.

I'm very happy to see Kevin McClouds involvement with Swindon and I look forward to seeing what he'll produce. I know many eco warriors might label his best efforts as half-way houses, but better half-way than no-way eh?. 

In any case, I suspect a half-way eco house is what will be commercially interesting to developers, and purchasers of property, for the forseeable future anyway.

Dons tin hat.....

[Mart]

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Right then, how dare you slag off my hero!!! It's Kevlar now anyway, makes a much more agreeable sound when things hit it.

No, I reckon that our Kev has enough of a reputation that he isn't going to stick his name on a pile of crap, and, I hope he isn't too naive that he will get had over by some dark satanic developers.

I reckon half way is going to be about right, they got to sell the bloody things after all, bit like the new Ford Interceptor, 170mph beast it may be, but it runs on bio ethanol, at an alarming rate admittedly, but hey, what the hell else are you going to use it for? Makes me experience tinglings.

Teeny tiny steps and all that, I am very nearly enthusiastic.

[ford]

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It worries me that Kevin McCloud tends to go into raptures about houses that are square boxes with massive windows on Grand Design whilst he clearly doesn't like genuine eco-houses. 

Hmmm, was there ever any realistic hope that 'genuine' eco-houses would be built in the numbers that Swindon has been ordered to build?.

What is a 'genuine' eco house anyway, and would people wish to buy/live in them?.

A carbon nuetral(ish) house doesn't have to have a turf roof with go-ats hobbled to the pasture.
Kevin Mcloud has taekn a lot of stick from eco-builders, in some cases justified, but he has the wit and nonce to build houses that are cheap to run and take little energy to do so.
Its not poncy to use grey water to flush loos - no-one is expected to filter grey water for their morning cuppa.
Lots of small efforts can turn a house into something faintly responsible.

Eco house can look very similar to hectares of west and north swindon houses - they have to be marketed to the masses .

[the gorgon]

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Saw both of the Channel 4 programmes about (should be available on 4OD) this building project.  He had his fair share of problems it must be said.

Despite some design flaws (he was told in no uncertain terms that a mum should have been involved in the design) I must say I really like the way the houses look.  Modern yet somehow traditional and exclude alot of the things I don't like about new build houses (low ceilings, small windows, trying desperately not to make house look the same as all the rest even though only about 4 designs are being used).

[Muggins]

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I watched both episodes, wishing I had brought the sick bucket in.  He exchanged small boxes for small boxes with hempcrete walls, back doors you couldn't get in and made them taller just to annoy those poor neighbours that now won't get light in their gardens. No storage until the families pointed out the error of his ways.  And what he knew about community development made me cringe.

AND they were not the first Eco houses in town, there is a batch over in Groundwell and have been for ten+ years.

The only way they got rid of those houses was to 'let' the lot - no one was buying and that was not all down to the financial situation.

Then he wanted us to sympathise with him having put a bit of his own money into it. 

2/10, Could do better - a lot better. 

[kevindoug]

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Kevin McCloud is really making the face change of SWINDON , his contribution toward the swindon is really remarkable and noticeable. i turelly appreciate his work and can say it as a grand design of swindon .

[Muggins]

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It's remarkable Ok, that not necessarily be positive, 'remarkable' is about making remarks, but noticeable, only if you are in the vicinity of Ferndale..........it's hardly the David Murray John building.   If he is changing the face of Swindon then we all now know who to blame.

[Got Signal]

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Muggins

Delightful post as ever  do you think Kevin achieved what he set out to do? http://www.bbc.co.uk/wiltshire/content/articles/2007/07/06/mccloud_swindon_feature.shtml

[ph1lc]

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What do the Guardian know? The new scheme is going to be a winner  and we'll get all our money back -Rod says so!

Funny how office partis make everything rosy!

[kohima]

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I dont think the people who live in Surrey Road, would think it was 'remarkable'..

[Muggins]

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It's Ok Koh, neither do we think it's 'remarkable' our sympathies lie with the good people of Ferndale.  Do you remember when Surrey Road where people aspired to live? 

[Got Signal]

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Muggins

When you build so many houses each year as we do in Swindon a sort of developers chewing gum before the eyes takes place. New estates become lumpy porridge that you want to get through quickly. If Kevlar was looking to create an  impression  maybe it would have been more appropriate to have built them in a small market town, where little or no development takes place?

[kohima]

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Yes, my sister in law used to live on the corner of the street, but moved some years ago, when there was a noise problem on the road, but nothing like the water problems now..

[Muggins]

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Ko, that's funny so did my aunt! Live on the corner of that street Surrey Road)I mean. 

GotS, what made me smile about the Programme was, when asked about the futuristic design, the other developers in th town, said that they were building traditional houses and they were selling well -  in other words, why would they want to go off on a risky tangent. 

That was 'endorsed' by Greensquare not being able to sell any of the houses and having to use  tenants, who had to be interviewed before being allowed to rent one, although I remember that was supposed to happen in the Eco housing over on Groundwell too.

Kevlar probably knows as well as we do, that he would never get an untraditional looking build estate through planning in a rural area, plus that would be greenfield.

[Got Signal]

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Muggins

I think that Kevlar did his best and in years to come time will as it always does, judge all Grand Designs.

[Des Moffatt]

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My ward colleagues and I did all that we could to stop this development getting approval. While a number of residents in Surrey, Richmond, Ferndale and Northern Roads were concerned enough to go to the planning meeting to voice their opposition we lost. Mr McCloud used his communication skills to good effect and was ably assisted by Cllr Greenhaulgh. Cllr Tomlinson moved approval and with one exception Conservative Councillors fell into line.
The lesson to be learned here and if I can influence it, it will happen, artists impressions of how a development will look will not be allowed in the factual presentation by officers to the planning committee.
Four things have emerged that were not evident in any of the resident engagement meetings concerning the former nursery site.
1)   Ground levels on the site are now between point 3 and point 8 meters higher    than they were before.
The planning committee were informed of the flooding risk with the help of pictures.
2)    What appeared as parking spaces on the artist impression was in fact parking under a three story block.
That was pointed out to the planning committee. Cllr Small pointed out the proximity of those blocks to the back doors of the residents in Surrey and Northern Roads.
3)   The resulting development appears much higher than the surrounding community.
Neither I nor anyone else I think realised that would happen and only expected the three story units to be dominating. The reason for this, the houses in the surrounding streets are of a design that keeps height to a minimum and the new development is deliberately higher than normal coupled with the raised ground level mean they dominate the properties in Richmond and Surrey Roads in particular.
4)   The visual offence that is the phoney chimneys was not appreciated.
   I and others did not appreciate their impact at the planning stage.


Never trust an artist impression.

The programme made by Grand Designs offends me on behalf of the community I represent. All the legitimate concerns of the neighbourhood were excluded in favour of one comment of concern regarding the prospect of the development being for some social housing. The people who would live there was never a concern, it was and remains the imposition of a design experiment of intense density that is contrary to the prevailing housing design of an established community.
My colleagues and I were interviewed at length but none of it used. I stand by my comment of spinning, we was had.

The one saving grace that has nothing whatever to do with McCloud is that the people who now live there are decent people who are starting to fit in well.

[Jodie Maggio]

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My ward colleagues and I did all that we could to stop this development getting approval. While a number of residents in Surrey, Richmond, Ferndale and Northern Roads were concerned enough to go to the planning meeting to voice their opposition we lost. Mr McCloud used his communication skills to good effect and was ably assisted by Cllr Greenhaulgh. Cllr Tomlinson moved approval and with one exception Conservative Councillors fell into line.
The lesson to be learned here and if I can influence it, it will happen, artists impressions of how a development will look will not be allowed in the factual presentation by officers to the planning committee.
Four things have emerged that were not evident in any of the resident engagement meetings concerning the former nursery site.
1)   Ground levels on the site are now between point 3 and point 8 meters higher    than they were before.
The planning committee were informed of the flooding risk with the help of pictures.
2)    What appeared as parking spaces on the artist impression was in fact parking under a three story block.
That was pointed out to the planning committee. Cllr Small pointed out the proximity of those blocks to the back doors of the residents in Surrey and Northern Roads.
3)   The resulting development appears much higher than the surrounding community.
Neither I nor anyone else I think realised that would happen and only expected the three story units to be dominating. The reason for this, the houses in the surrounding streets are of a design that keeps height to a minimum and the new development is deliberately higher than normal coupled with the raised ground level mean they dominate the properties in Richmond and Surrey Roads in particular.
4)   The visual offence that is the phoney chimneys was not appreciated.
   I and others did not appreciate their impact at the planning stage.


Never trust an artist impression.

The programme made by Grand Designs offends me on behalf of the community I represent. All the legitimate concerns of the neighbourhood were excluded in favour of one comment of concern regarding the prospect of the development being for some social housing. The people who would live there was never a concern, it was and remains the imposition of a design experiment of intense density that is contrary to the prevailing housing design of an established community.
My colleagues and I were interviewed at length but none of it used. I stand by my comment of spinning, we was had.

The one saving grace that has nothing whatever to do with McCloud is that the people who now live there are decent people who are starting to fit in well.

Des, there are so many similarities with this and the Croft School

1. Cllr Tomlinson cant wait to be first out of the blocks to approve... wonder if any family members have any vested interest?

2. Photgraphic eveidence showing the unsuitability of the application was ignored by the planning committee

3. Artist impressions were constantly displayed on a loop during the planning meeting. Nic Newland has since said that the artist impressions will not be how the school will look.

4. The design of the Croft School(concentration camp/battery hen farm/young offenders institution - take your pick) is not in keeping with the surrounding area. But then again this is the same planning committee that approved the Marlborough Park monstrosity at the Pipers Way roundabout so no surprise there.