Author Topic: BBC Whistleblowers Tonight  (Read 3502 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline HeidiT

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 116
  • Gender: Female
BBC Whistleblowers Tonight
« on: May 22, 2007, 11:18:33 PM »
Did anyone else watch the Whistleblowers programme about the 'unsafe food practices going on at Sainsbury's and Tesco'?  The Sainsbury's where they went undercover was at Didcot.

As I do most of my shopping at Sainsbury's and have had cause to complain in the last few months, I honestly don't think that I will be buying anything off the Meat, Fish or Deli counters for quite some time !!!!

 :crazy2:



Offline Lynda

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 954
  • "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"
    • NO2ID Swindon
Re: BBC Whistleblowers Tonight
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2007, 06:30:29 AM »
I didn't see this but will watch for the re-run.

I already boycott Tesco - should I include Sainsbury in my circle of exclusion I'd be quite happy.

Did the programmers infer the dirty habits were exclusive to Tesco and Sainsbury or were they chosen for their market reach do you think?
Lynda  NO2ID 07802 151464  Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

Offline HeidiT

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 116
  • Gender: Female
Re: BBC Whistleblowers Tonight
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2007, 10:50:24 AM »
I think they were chosen for their market reach, with what was going on this can't just be exclusive to them.

The fish counter was the worst !!!!  The boss sniffing the prawns and saying they're okay if they don't smell of a pet shop !!!.  The prawns sell by dates were changed numerous times until they had the 'pet shop' odour !!!!

oooooooooooooo and yuck !!!!

Offline Tel Hudson

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 199
  • Gender: Male
Re: BBC Whistleblowers Tonight
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2007, 12:26:23 PM »
A friend got a casual job on the building site of a new Sainsbury's in Basingstoke some years ago.  Even with his limited knowledge of building he noticed two defects.

The first one was that the lintel over the loading bay door was about 20 cms too short.  It is more hanging than supporting.  Not quite sure how the wall is staying up.

The other thing was that the Fish Prep room was built over a foul sewer with a manhole in the middle of the floor.  They simply tiled over it.  Not a problem normally since it is sealed.  If, however, access is required and the cover is removed.  Whoops!
I am right 96% of the time. I don't give an aerial intercourse about the other 5%..

Dick Norman

  • Guest
Re: BBC Whistleblowers Tonight
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2007, 09:57:20 AM »
 :-X

I used to work in the Packaging industry in the 1980's and some of the Hygiene standards or rather lack of them in some of the factories had to be seen to be believed.

The benchmark then and I believe probably is today is the standard demanded by Marks & Spencer and if a supplier was involved with them then everyone benefited from that input.

Three stories come to mind:

Egg Packing Station in rural Norfolk.  M & S Lady buyer visits to ascertain their suitability to become a supplier.  She goes round the plant and likes what she sees and tells them so, but insists on visiting both the Male and Female toilets.  She spends ten minutes in each and then comes out with a list saying they cannot receive any business until attention and correction has been made.

In a London Bacon processing plant I witnessed cobwebs hanging from the ceiling, and meat being cut by people with gowns so dirty they were rigid.  There was not even hot water in the toilets and no soap either!  They were supplying a major retail chain long since disappeared.  Needless to say I never shopped there again!!  I did think about reporting this, but decided against as I had just sold them some plant.  I would certainly do so today.

I was checking up some of my previous sales at a plant in North London who produced Apple turnovers for M & S.  This process was completely automated save the two ladies on the end of the line sprinkling the sugar!!  I was in the company of the chief engineer who suddenly froze.  He said he couldn't spend any more time with me as the 'lady' buyer from M & S was due in an hours time and she would shut the place down if he didn't take action immediately.  What was he so worried about?  It was a piece of sticky tape (sellotape) on a perspex cover for a control panel and this was situated six feet from the line!!

The purpose of  these stories is to prove that it was an accolade to achieve business with M & S and the standards to which they worked and achieved.  I cannot believe it is any different today, but unfortunately it shows in the price you pay.  But like everything else in this world we do have a choice.


Offline Tobes

  • Regents
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4951
Re: BBC Whistleblowers Tonight
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2007, 10:31:02 AM »
Gumphf! In comes Tobes again with a slightly different view... honestly, I'm beginning to feel like Mr Curmudgeon!  ;)

Of course I think food hygeine is important - but I can't help thinking that our attitudes towards foods are becoming ridiculously obessive, almost to the point of paranoia. We've all got to remember that so many of the rules applied to food in this country are simply ignored or treated as irrelevent in 95% of the rest of the world. YES, its true that as a result, we have lower rates of contamination or disease - but its no coincidence that its precisely why our pampered and pathetic Britsh guts wave a white flag when we do finally try something new on holiday! It also links in with the recent scientific confirmation that the increase in certain allergies is due to kids lask of exposure to natural contaminants and pathogens during their early childhood. Our compliant enforcement of even the most ridiculous aspects of EU legislation have meant that its a case of feast or famine: Small local businesses have gone to the wall becasue they've not been able to comply with the ever changing demands, whereas large supermarkets have complied with training and equipment - but rely upon apparently ignorant and uncaring low waged counter-monkeys to do the day-to-day management at point of sale. I've lost count of the ocassions at a supermarket where I've had to name the vege I've bought, because the Acne-drone on the till hasn't recognised an aubergene, a sweet potatato or an avocado!

Personally, I always willfully ignore all but the common sense aspects of food hygiene: Is it clean? Does it smell OK? If I'm not 100% sure about either, should I cook it - and if so, for how long? I guess all of these sorts of considerations were second nature to our parents and their parents generation. How sad that we're such an intellectually impovorished nation that we rely on inspectors in white suits and labels to define what's safe and what isn't . I'd like to see a day when we can slash back enough bureacrasy so that we can actually develop a meaningful a long standing relationship with the purveyors of our commestibles. Perhaps its because supermarkets employ drones on low wages we can hardly expect them to give the proverbial tinker's cuss. A private fishmonger or butcher had a reputation, heritage and personal business to protect.
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - [attributed to] Voltaire... 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita' - William of Occam.... 'You have a right to feel offended, but just cos you are offended doesn't mean you are right'

Offline James

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 907
Re: BBC Whistleblowers Tonight
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2007, 10:49:43 AM »
Does anyone remember Bonbay Duck (actually dried fish), which you used to be able to get in Indian restaurants?
I think it was banned largely because it was cured on racks in the open air next to the river/sea (unless someone can tell me differently), as it had been for generations. Millenia probably.

Not good enough for the us.
Deeply sad. I liked it.

James

Offline Lynda

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 954
  • "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"
    • NO2ID Swindon
Re: BBC Whistleblowers Tonight
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2007, 10:53:06 AM »
Tobes - I agree and disagree with you.
We have become a milk lined belly nation.
I think we are obsessed with food hygene, encouraged by 'best by dates' on food stuff, which I think results in vast waste as people discard items from their Smeg almost at the suppliers behest.

The problem I have with dirty pratices by Supermarkets is the the veneer. I should be able to assume that food is prepared and served with sanitation in mind. they market it as such.
If I buy off the fish stall at the market or meat from my butcher, I can see the food is not cellophane wrapped, I can see the sever's hands, the state of her apron, I take that in, look for the crumbs under the table ( my version of the M&S buyer's loo inspection) and make a decison. I am not being hoodwinked.

It is offensive to me to buy something that had its freshness postdated, if I want to buy 'old' stuff  I want to to it knowingly. It is dishonest of the supermarket to present food as fresh and sanitary if its not.

But.... nothing wrong with picking up food that's been dropped and popping it into one's mouth, unless its butter which is a bit trickier






Lynda  NO2ID 07802 151464  Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

Offline Lynda

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 954
  • "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"
    • NO2ID Swindon
Re: BBC Whistleblowers Tonight
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2007, 10:55:46 AM »
Does anyone remember Bonbay Duck (actually dried fish), which you used to be able to get in Indian restaurants?
I think it was banned largely because it was cured on racks in the open air next to the river/sea (unless someone can tell me differently), as it had been for generations. Millenia probably.

Not good enough for the us.
Deeply sad. I liked it.

James

Me too. Bizarre that it difficult to find when you bear in mind that most raisins and sultanas we buy have been recently dried by the sun on age old tarps. and turned by hand or shovel.
Lynda  NO2ID 07802 151464  Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

Offline Tobes

  • Regents
  • Member
  • *
  • Posts: 4951
Re: BBC Whistleblowers Tonight
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2007, 11:31:39 AM »
Ah, Bombay Duck! Gorgeous - I used to love that! try a strip to Stokewood road (I think thats what its called) - on the otherside of the M32 flyover opposite IKEA... I suspect a word in the right ear down there might get you what you wanted (Incidentally, let me know if you and the missus are heading down that way in the next few week, as we could combine an expedition!)

Bombay Duck dealing on TS - who'd have believed it?? (sshhhh!)

In all seriousness, the way we impose the law here in the UK is a joke - just have a look at the fantastic, healthy and safe food which is available on the continent - but which extends a thrusting and firm two fingered salute at the health and hygiene regulations. God bless 'em.

Unfortunately Tel, thats why, despite my liberal leanings, I have a serious problem with the Lib Dems. Whilst the EC has provided this country with many bebefits, it has also undeniably fractured and damaged aspects of our culture and appears to be drowning us in a sea of petty bureacrasy. Why is it that we impose EU health and hygiene statute to the extent we do, when a short trip across the channel shows that much of the rest of europe merely extends a gallic shrug and says things like 'well, they're guidelines' - when we construct and entire bureacratic edifice to go round fining people? To link back to a previous thread, its the attitude towards enforcement which makes such a cause celebre out of people like the 'metric martyr', far more than the actual suppoed 'crime' which they committed. Its why the attitude of this country has inexorably and irrevocably turned against further integration.
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - [attributed to] Voltaire... 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita' - William of Occam.... 'You have a right to feel offended, but just cos you are offended doesn't mean you are right'

Offline Lynda

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 954
  • "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?"
    • NO2ID Swindon
Re: BBC Whistleblowers Tonight
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2007, 11:50:59 AM »
Why is it that we impose EU health and hygiene statute to the extent we do, when a short trip across the channel shows that much of the rest of europe merely extends a gallic shrug and says things like 'well, they're guidelines' - when we construct and entire bureacratic edifice to go round fining people? To link back to a previous thread, its the attitude towards enforcement which makes such a cause celebre out of people like the 'metric martyr', far more than the actual suppoed 'crime' which they committed. Its why the attitude of this country has inexorably and irrevocably turned against further integration.

I used to fiddle around with an EU regukation as a paid-for job.
This work took me to Brussels frequently,  through my colleagues from other EU nations I learned quickly that whilst we, the British, were straining the wit of our workforce to comply with the Regulation others had a far more sanguine,practical approach - they genarelly operated with a eye on the spirit of the Regulation, we worked to the letter.
As well the British used the combined brains of lawyers and experts by the planet load to ensure that changes to the regulation were adopted, so that we could strain the wit of our work-force and so on.
Many of my colleagues from other nations found it all very amusing.

Lynda  NO2ID 07802 151464  Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety.

Offline Geoff Reid

  • Twitter: @Geoff_Reid
  • Active But Odd
  • Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 10109
  • Gender: Male
  • Bald as a chimps arse
Re: BBC Whistleblowers Tonight
« Reply #11 on: May 27, 2007, 12:36:41 PM »


Quote from: Tobes
Bombay Duck dealing on TS - who'd have believed it?? (sshhhh!)

We'd need a new financial board for it...... 'The Duck Exchange'

Offline Alligator

  • Twitter - @Alliflowchart
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1846
  • Gender: Male
Re: BBC Whistleblowers Tonight
« Reply #12 on: June 05, 2007, 08:40:31 PM »
I already boycott Tesco

why why why???

Offline Alligator

  • Twitter - @Alliflowchart
  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1846
  • Gender: Male
Re: BBC Whistleblowers Tonight
« Reply #13 on: June 05, 2007, 09:12:42 PM »
Tobes - I agree and disagree with you.
We have become a milk lined belly nation.
I think we are obsessed with food hygene, encouraged by 'best by dates' on food stuff, which I think results in vast waste as people discard items from their Smeg almost at the suppliers behest.

The problem I have with dirty pratices by Supermarkets is the the veneer. I should be able to assume that food is prepared and served with sanitation in mind. they market it as such.
If I buy off the fish stall at the market or meat from my butcher, I can see the food is not cellophane wrapped, I can see the sever's hands, the state of her apron, I take that in, look for the crumbs under the table ( my version of the M&S buyer's loo inspection) and make a decison. I am not being hoodwinked.

It is offensive to me to buy something that had its freshness postdated, if I want to buy 'old' stuff  I want to to it knowingly. It is dishonest of the supermarket to present food as fresh and sanitary if its not.

But.... nothing wrong with picking up food that's been dropped and popping it into one's mouth, unless its butter which is a bit trickier


I'm pretty much in agreement with Lynda on this. Any company pretending to be something it's not is, as far as I'm concerned, treating me as though I'm stupid and unworthy of the truth.  That just pisses me off and I vote with my feet and go elsewhere.  The problem is knowing when you're being lied to.

I used to work for Safeway and if you could have smelt the rancid rotting food that was lying about bins in the warehouse you'd have shopped anywhere else.  I know that many 'rules' about how long things can be out of the freezers and all that kind of stuff were ignored. In my view it was the result of the greed of the company which manifested itself with the staff being seriously over worked and treated like crap by the management and bad planning.  Ultimately corners get cut in order to maintain profits.

I think we're all a bit hypocritical when it comes to food, I'd like to bet that our own kitchens are less hygenic than the average restaurant kitchen but no one hears about this as it's not checked out by the local environmental health.  I know I'm a hypocrite....if I got food poisonong I think I could stomach it more (if you'll pardon the pun) if it of my own doing rather than the result of some unknown quantity who happened to touch my food straight after wiping their arse.

I'm still intrigued to know why Lynda boycotts Tesco, I know other people that do, in fact I know one person that calls it the Devil's shop.  I don't boycott them, but have considered it, not for what I would consider to be moral grounds, but because I don't like going there only to find that I can only buy a third of the stuff I need cos their shelves are empty....I mean, what's the point in opening 24X7 if you can only keep stuff on the sehlves until 4 pm?

Offline Mart

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5249
  • Where's my cow?
Re: BBC Whistleblowers Tonight
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2007, 07:33:56 PM »
French farmers make cheese in their toilets, it's a well known fact.

I don't particularly like the idea of all these sell by dates etc, I think there is an element of making sure the stock churns at a rate that is satisfactory for the retailer.

As a nipper we ate pretty much anything that rolled along, we drank milk that was unpasteurised (bloody tricky word) cos stepdad worked for the Milk Marketing Board, ate plant life that grew in dirt, ate fish that swam in unboiled water etc etc and hardly ever had the lurgy.

My boy on the other hand has had an upbringing largely fed by rules and regs food, he has hay fever and is paranoid about sell by dates, most of his mates have allergies to some foods or other and I delight in allowing him to eat dangerous food when we can get it.

I don't know, i think a baby went out with some bathwater somewhere.

That said, if you set yourself up as a paragon of something or other and get exposed as something a bit different you should take the kicking that is due.

If a shop said you can have them cheap, they are getting a bit iffy, would you buy them?

It's preferable to they are getting a bit iffy, but I ain't going to tell you that, you can pay top whack.
Sometimes I think you have to march right in and demand your rights, even if you don’t know what your rights are, or who the person is you’re talking to. Then, on the way out, slam the door.

Offline Tel Hudson

  • Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 199
  • Gender: Male
Re: BBC Whistleblowers Tonight
« Reply #15 on: June 19, 2007, 02:51:55 PM »
Ah, Bombay Duck! Gorgeous - I used to love that! try a strip to Stokewood road (I think thats what its called) - on the otherside of the M32 flyover opposite IKEA... I suspect a word in the right ear down there might get you what you wanted (Incidentally, let me know if you and the missus are heading down that way in the next few week, as we could combine an expedition!)

Bombay Duck dealing on TS - who'd have believed it?? (sshhhh!)

In all seriousness, the way we impose the law here in the UK is a joke - just have a look at the fantastic, healthy and safe food which is available on the continent - but which extends a thrusting and firm two fingered salute at the health and hygiene regulations. God bless 'em.

Unfortunately Tel, thats why, despite my liberal leanings, I have a serious problem with the Lib Dems. Whilst the EC has provided this country with many benefits, it has also undeniably fractured and damaged aspects of our culture and appears to be drowning us in a sea of petty bureaucracy. Why is it that we impose EU health and hygiene statute to the extent we do, when a short trip across the channel shows that much of the rest of Europe merely extends a Gallic shrug and says things like 'well, they're guidelines' - when we construct and entire bureaucratic edifice to go round fining people? To link back to a previous thread, its the attitude towards enforcement which makes such a cause celebre out of people like the 'metric martyr', far more than the actual supposed 'crime' which they committed. Its why the attitude of this country has inexorably and irrevocably turned against further integration.
You have to distinguish between the sea of EU regulations and the bucketful of UK top-up regs.  The French obey the regs.  We gold plate them and then invent a few more for luck.

I didn't know that Bombay Duck was banned in this country.  (Is it actually banned or is this yet another H&S myth?)  If it is banned then I would bet that it is HM Gov and not the EU who are responsible.

We have a whole load of bureaucrats (and this Government) who delight in banning everything in sight.  When this turns out to be unpopular they immediately blame the EU.  Mind you, the EU does itself no favours because they have a number of equally didactic Eurocrats with their stupid unnecessary little rules.

Luckily we have a whole lot of LibDem MEPs who (unlike their UKIP colleagues) actually turn up to vote down the worst proposals and so preserve our liberties.  Now if only we had more LibDem MPs to vote down the silly regulations invented by our Civil Sevice.
I am right 96% of the time. I don't give an aerial intercourse about the other 5%..