Author Topic: Anonymous councillors and the 'ignore user' function  (Read 8400 times)

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Offline Tobes

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Re: Anonymous councillors and the 'ignore user' function
« Reply #20 on: May 22, 2007, 12:03:56 AM »
Blimey! All I can say is that those of us not directly involved in the crucible of Swindon politics are rather at a loss as to why people got so heated so quickly. Personally, I'd like to invite ALL PARTICPANTS to think about the debate here. The nature of any argument is likely to become personal at some stage to some extent  - especially if the beliefs which are being debated are strongly held. So, to talk about the 'personal' nature of 'abuse' (or could that equally be valid criticism or a strong difference of opinion?) is somewhat moot in an environment like this, which is afterall a forum for debate. However, if someone feels strongly 'wronged' or that words appearing here are objectively inaccurate - or even just upsetting - then bring it to the Admins attention asap and we will do something about it!

I'm especially dissapointed at the way this speculative 'IP tracker' issue has been raised. I would not be involved here unless I utterly trusted Geoff's integrity and judgement on this matter - and I have no reason to disbelieve his word on this. Please read his words carefully.

To the Lib Dems, I'd say this. SOME of the criticism levelled at you is entirely valid I think. Consider and absorb. Dave, if as an elected councillor, you still haven't raised your voice in the chamber, I think thats a real shame - not only in terms of the mandate your voters entrusted you to - but also with Labour in their self-imposed disarray, we NEED people like you to provide an effective opposition and to speak out in every venue open to you. But please remember, there are a hell of a lot more active observers of TS than there are regular participants. I reckon you should ride with the punches a little. Remember, the people viewing this forum will be the ultimate judge of who's behaving with integrity. You're posting under your real name. Credibility earned. I think you're reacting to the flak directed at you in a very personal way and maybe you might be less concerned if you realised that a lot of it actually does your critics more harm than good. People baiting someone only do so to get a rise out of them. Simply don't give them the satisfaction!  Your earlier and more 'stoical' posts dealt with things with humour and made an excellent impression. Perhaps some of your opponents didn't like that?

Forums like TS are the future of engaged local politics. In its short life, you and your colleagues have had real interaction with more of the Swindon electorate than probably 20 years of public gallery viewings! And unlike the Adver which quickly becomes tomorrow's chip paper, this is a historical record of the way people evolve their arguments and ideas. Dave and Nicky - please stick with TS. In complete contrast to what Mr Greenhalgh said, I think time on here is VERY well spent - especially if its as an opportunity to engage with your electorate and to probe or explain SBC policy.

To the 'others', I'd ask you to be sensitive to the fact that Dave is posting as himself. Given the relative paucity of 'above the line' participation by councillors, I'd say that this was something to be encouraged. Lets keep the debate as clean as we can - the perception by someone on the receiving end that they're being victimised isn't about the spirit of TS - or healthy political (or any other!) debate, is it?  :-\  (though even then, there are limits...come back Rob Magic!)

...Afterall, those of you who are probably 'councillors in hiding' are in the rare and privilleged postion to debate professionally as part of your employment (by your paymasters - amongst others, me!). Lets see some good debators expressing differences of opinions - rather than mass debating  ;)
I do not agree with what you have to say, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it - [attributed to] Voltaire... 'Entia non sunt multiplicanda praeter necessita' - William of Occam.... 'You have a right to feel offended, but just cos you are offended doesn't mean you are right'

Offline Geoff Reid

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Re: Anonymous councillors and the 'ignore user' function
« Reply #21 on: May 22, 2007, 12:30:36 AM »

.....he said 'Mass-debating'....f'nar, f'nar

But...

Good post Tobes, spot on I think.


Offline Tel Hudson

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Re: Anonymous councillors and the 'ignore user' function
« Reply #22 on: May 22, 2007, 04:40:53 PM »
A number of folks have missed the original point.  In the rough and tumble of debate, some people do prefer to go for a personal attack rather than making rational points.  I'm used to this and, whilst I do not approve, it is just one of those things you have to accept.

Cllr. Greenhalgh has made a few robust comments but no-one is complaining about him.  He, like myself, chooses to to post under his own name.  If anyone is offended by his posts, then they can complain and he will answer for himself.  On the other hand there are people such as Tig who use pseudonyms but again there is no complaint because she is very careful to keep within the bounds of debate and does not make impolite comments.

The problem is the anonymous posters who use their pseudonyms as a cowardly cloak to hide behind.  I do not know if the name callers are actually councillors or whether they are simply mouthpieces who spout their vitriol on command.  My feeling is simple.  If you want to bad-mouth someone, have the guts to do so under your own name.
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Triumph

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Re: Anonymous councillors and the 'ignore user' function
« Reply #23 on: May 23, 2007, 08:12:56 PM »
 :WTF:

Well Tel and where were the Libdems last night at the Annual Swindon Councillors Overview Conference? 

As you would know, if you were Stan Pajak, Martin Wiltshire or Dave Wood, this is where the aganda's are set for each of the overview committees for the next twelve months. 

So why was there not one of the three Eastcott Lib Dem Councillors present? 

Are the three remaining Lib Dems following their Labour friends from whom they seem to take their lead and abstaining from Political debate in the hope that the Tories fall over or go up in a puff of smoke!!  Some chance, you will have to set light to them first!!
 
Is this what the Lib Dems were elected to do on behalf of their constituents? 

I suggest not!! 

 :bottom: :bottom: :bottom: :bottom: :bottom: :bottom: :bottom: :bottom: :bottom: :bottom: :bottom: :bottom:

Offline HeidiT

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Re: Anonymous councillors and the 'ignore user' function
« Reply #24 on: May 23, 2007, 08:22:56 PM »
You seem to be under the impression that all of our Tory Councillors are somehow working hard for their constituents?  Where do you seem to get this impression from?  If you think that we as residents are more impressed by time spent in the Council chamber then you are sadly mistaken.

Also I do not know why the Lib Dem Councillors were not present but if they had been would the Tory majority have listened to them in anyway that was important, would they have swayed any decisions made?  Or is this important for you for 'listing' purposes??

 :-X

Triumph

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Re: Anonymous councillors and the 'ignore user' function
« Reply #25 on: May 23, 2007, 08:30:55 PM »
 :fence1:

Well Heidi, it appears the Libdems have actually given up completely and surrendered, not a Dunkirk spirit I suggest!!

And why should anyone actually take the Libdems seriously if they do not think they have any impact on proceedings and are prepared to engage?

That just proves a Libdem vote is a wasted vote!!

And if you know of any Tories not looking after their constituents here is your chance to 'out' them.

 :fence1:

Offline HeidiT

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Re: Anonymous councillors and the 'ignore user' function
« Reply #26 on: May 23, 2007, 08:46:19 PM »
Quote
Well Heidi, it appears the Libdems have actually given up completely and surrendered, not a Dunkirk spirit I suggest!!

Far from it, the Lib Dems have definately not given up, just because they don't highlight and continually shout about the work they do !!!

Quote
And why should anyone actually take the Libdems seriously if they do not think they have any impact on proceedings and are prepared to engage?!!

Please don't take my comments as comments on behalf of the Liberal Democrat party, I am not a 'they' as quoted above.  I also did not say that I didn't think they have any impact on proceedings or are prepared to engage?  These are obviously your thoughts which you are obviously entitled to, so please don't attribute them to me.

Quote
That just proves a Libdem vote is a wasted vote!!

And what proves a Lib Dem vote is wasted?  As I havn't seen any argument that you have posted that could come to that conclusion???

Quote
And if you know of any Tories not looking after their constituents here is your chance to 'out' them.

As you are obviously a Tory you would know who these are and anyway I would not dream to stoop to the levels that you obviously require to 'Out' them. It is enough to know that everyone knows who they are, apart from the majority of the Tories, and so do the residents who chose not to vote at all !!!!!.

 :fence1:

Triumph

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Re: Anonymous councillors and the 'ignore user' function
« Reply #27 on: May 23, 2007, 11:37:03 PM »
Quote

If the Libdems are working so hard and doing so much why do we not know about it?  Is it a secret or something so can the voting public be made aware of these great deeds?

Quote

Was it not you who stood in Freshbrook and Grange Park last year and in Moreden this year as a Lib Dem Candidate and so is it not reasonable for me to believe you speak on their behalf?  Yes, I did make the above statement and I am surprised that in view of your association that you do not wish to comment - as a Libdem candidate!!.. and presumably a member of the party.

Quote

My opinion, as a lapsed Libdem voter, is, that if those winning Libdem candidates, for whom people voted, do not engage in the democratic process then Libdem votes are wasted votes.  So please use your influence and get them to engage now or otherwise they will become a rump of two next year and you will lose your remaining voice!!

Quote

And what makes you think I am a Tory?  I could be anything as I have said I have even voted Libdem.  So what is wrong in bringing lazy Tories to book or is this just another bit of misinformation?  If you feel they exist you know you owe it to the electorate of Swindon to share your knowledge and bring the administration and their forty three councillors to account.  If I knew who they were I would not responding to this comment!!

 :fence1:


Triumph

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Re: Anonymous councillors and the 'ignore user' function
« Reply #28 on: May 24, 2007, 12:12:34 AM »
 :-[

oops made a bit a mess of the quotes on the previous posting, so you will see I am not clever enough to be a member of the Tories.

Anyway the idea was to respond to Heidi's previous post.

Nevermind eh, it's only fun anyway

 :)





Offline Keith

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Re: Anonymous councillors and the 'ignore user' function
« Reply #29 on: May 24, 2007, 08:34:50 AM »
Also I do not know why the Lib Dem Councillors were not present but if they had been would the Tory majority have listened to them in anyway that was important, would they have swayed any decisions made?  Or is this important for you for 'listing' purposes??

Just read this and thought it worth clarifying that the verbal antics and faux animosity in the Council chamber are 80% for show. I attended the Scrutiny and Overview Conference being the Chair of the Community, Housing and Social Care Overview Committee and had three Labour Councillors in my group to plan the agenda for the year; they all had good points to make which were listened to by all present and will help focus the areas of Council policy we focus on over the next year.

The Overview committees are more akin to the select committees in Parliament where those involved work together regardless of political persuasion. We have the ability to "call in" policy decisions and would not hesitate in doing so.

One of my colleagues also mentioned to me on the evening that no Lib Dem Councillors were present. To be fair they were not the only ones. But anyone who could have attended and didn't, missed one of the best opportunities to be a part of making a difference over the next 12 months.

Offline Dale Heenan

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Re: Anonymous councillors and the 'ignore user' function
« Reply #30 on: May 24, 2007, 09:57:56 PM »
Quote
Well Heidi, it appears the Libdems have actually given up completely and surrendered, not a Dunkirk spirit I suggest!!

Far from it, the Lib Dems have definately not given up, just because they don't highlight and continually shout about the work they do !!!

Quote
And why should anyone actually take the Libdems seriously if they do not think they have any impact on proceedings and are prepared to engage?!!

Please don't take my comments as comments on behalf of the Liberal Democrat party, I am not a 'they' as quoted above.  I also did not say that I didn't think they have any impact on proceedings or are prepared to engage?  These are obviously your thoughts which you are obviously entitled to, so please don't attribute them to me.

Quote
That just proves a Libdem vote is a wasted vote!!

And what proves a Lib Dem vote is wasted?  As I havn't seen any argument that you have posted that could come to that conclusion???

Quote
And if you know of any Tories not looking after their constituents here is your chance to 'out' them.

As you are obviously a Tory you would know who these are and anyway I would not dream to stoop to the levels that you obviously require to 'Out' them. It is enough to know that everyone knows who they are, apart from the majority of the Tories, and so do the residents who chose not to vote at all !!!!!.

 :fence1:
Keith is quite right... The Overview and Scrutiny Conference was about setting the agenda for the Committees over the next 12 months. Not a single Libdem turned up.

Offline HeidiT

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Re: Anonymous councillors and the 'ignore user' function
« Reply #31 on: May 24, 2007, 10:28:00 PM »
Hi everyone

One Councillor was at a School Governor's meeting, One Councillor is not a member of any scrutiny committe and therefore could not go and the other one had an important pre-arranged business commitment.

Hope this helps you all out?

 ;)

Offline Dale Heenan

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Re: Anonymous councillors and the 'ignore user' function
« Reply #32 on: May 24, 2007, 10:40:19 PM »
Neither am I and I went after nearly 5hrs of meeting with Highways, Planning and Trading Standards, and ended up standing in for someone who was also on business. You don't need to be a member of a Committee to play a full part in Council business or influence an agenda/work programme.

Perhaps some people are happy to sit back  ;)

Offline HeidiT

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Re: Anonymous councillors and the 'ignore user' function
« Reply #33 on: May 24, 2007, 10:53:41 PM »
Dear Triumph

Quote
If the Libdems are working so hard and doing so much why do we not know about it?  Is it a secret or something so can the voting public be made aware of these great deeds?

I am quite surprised that you havn't seen any of the Lib Dem's Focus leaflets, this set's out what they are doing.  There is also a large amount of casework being done by the Lib Dem Councillor's and activists.

Quote
Was it not you who stood in Freshbrook and Grange Park last year and in Moreden this year as a Lib Dem Candidate and so is it not reasonable for me to believe you speak on their behalf?  Yes, I did make the above statement and I am surprised that in view of your association that you do not wish to comment - as a Libdem candidate!!.. and presumably a member of the party.

Yes, as you quite rightly pointed out I did stand as a candidate last year and this year.  When I am asked to comment as a Lib Dem then I shall do so specifically, but at all other times this is my personal opinion and should not be seen as 'blanket' Lib Dem opinion.

Quote
My opinion, as a lapsed Libdem voter, is, that if those winning Libdem candidates, for whom people voted, do not engage in the democratic process then Libdem votes are wasted votes.  So please use your influence and get them to engage now or otherwise they will become a rump of two next year and you will lose your remaining voice!!

I am sorry to hear that you are a lapsed Lib Dem voter and I would be interested to know why you do not still vote Lib Dem?   :angel: I however do not believe that the Lib Dem Councillors are not engaged in the democratic process and how can you make this assumption based on non-attendance at the meeting.

Quote
And what makes you think I am a Tory?  I could be anything as I have said I have even voted Libdem.  So what is wrong in bringing lazy Tories to book or is this just another bit of misinformation?  If you feel they exist you know you owe it to the electorate of Swindon to share your knowledge and bring the administration and their forty three councillors to account.  If I knew who they were I would not responding to this comment!!!!

I do not for one second think you are a Labour Councillor but only a Councillor who was present at the meeting would have been able to tell Talk Swindon that the Lib Dem Councillor's were not at the meeting so quickly  ;D so I made an assumption that you were therefore a Tory.  I apologise if this is not correct.  :2funny: 

As for lazy Tories all I will say is,that I am definately not in the habit of alluding to misinformation (unless your'e counting the red herring on the Where is this? thread?)  As you well know (if you were a Lib Dem Voter) that if I am a Lib Dem I am not in the habit of slagging individuals off for their inaction within certain wards in Swindon.

Bestest regards


Heidi

 



Offline HeidiT

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Re: Anonymous councillors and the 'ignore user' function
« Reply #34 on: May 24, 2007, 10:56:30 PM »
Quote
Neither am I and I went after nearly 5hrs of meeting with Highways, Planning and Trading Standards, and ended up standing in for someone who was also on business. You don't need to be a member of a Committee to play a full part in Council business or influence an agenda/work programme.

Perhaps some people are happy to sit back  ;)

Dale, I think the Councillor that is not on an overview or scrutiny committee did not know that he could attend as if he had he would have attended.

 O0

Offline Dale Heenan

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Re: Anonymous councillors and the 'ignore user' function
« Reply #35 on: May 25, 2007, 01:05:12 PM »
In fact all Cllrs received a invite letter about it, it's been in the members bulletin and raised at all of the last set of Committee meetings... a press release was sent to the Advertiser and it was also forwarded to all cllrs etc etc

It does raise the question of what the cllr expects to contribute to the Council over the next year, or how they can stand up for residents in local and borough issues - sounds like nothing and just sitting at home! :2funny:

Offline Tel Hudson

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Re: Anonymous councillors and the 'ignore user' function
« Reply #36 on: May 27, 2007, 03:15:09 AM »
The interesting thing is that when a complaint is made that people are posting disreputable comments under the cowardly cloak or anonymity, rather than addressing the issue, various Conservative Councillors jump in to talk about LibDems missing a single Council meeting.  By the way, I have no complaint against these Councillors as there comments are factual and they are prepared to stand behind those comments.

The problem I have is the hi-jacking of a reasonable problem and trying to make it the fault of the victim.  There is no member of this board who is an anonymous mouthpiece of a LibDem Councillor.  Further, and I am speaking as a LibDem here, anyone who did that sort of thing is liable to be expelled from the Party.  There are, however, a number of anonymous posters who spout, not the official Conservative line, but rather an exaggerated near parody of it.

Now are these people Conservative Councillors?  I think I have identified one by comparing word choice and sentence patterns but this is by no means conclusive.  I would rather like to hear our named Conservative repudiate the anonymous attacks.
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Offline Jarvis

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Re: Anonymous councillors and the 'ignore user' function
« Reply #37 on: June 07, 2007, 11:53:00 PM »

There is no member of this board who is an anonymous mouthpiece of a LibDem Councillor.  Further, and I am speaking as a LibDem here, anyone who did that sort of thing is liable to be expelled from the Party.

Interesting point of view.

A shame recent events show it isn't shared by 66% of the Liberal Democrat councillors in Swindon.

I will be interested to see how the fibdems Libdems will try spinning their way out of it.

 :popcorn: